Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works

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studiotech

Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« on: 10 Sep 2010, 04:12 am »
Test baffles for now, but things are looking, measuring and sounding good so far.  Final baffles will be laminated bamboo plywood with large quarteround MDF wings.  I am making the 2nd baffle this weekend, but still waiting for the second set of Neo10's to arrive from Meniscus, so I might have to run one per side, just to have a listening in stereo.  This mono crap for the last couple of weeks has been killing me.

Greg -technician  - www.phatplanetstudios.com











face

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #1 on: 11 Sep 2010, 12:49 pm »
Just curious, what size is your room?  I was considering 2 pairs of Dipole 12's for my 17x19 room. 

Subscribed.   :thumb:

JohnR

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #2 on: 11 Sep 2010, 12:52 pm »
I thought the Neo10's were a myth. Apparently not  :o What crossover points are you using? (Or can you tell us more?  :thumb: )

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #3 on: 11 Sep 2010, 02:35 pm »
Just curious, what size is your room?  I was considering 2 pairs of Dipole 12's for my 17x19 room. 

Subscribed.   :thumb:

The area these are in is about 25ft deep by 15ft wide at the front of the room, but opening into the dining area at the back.  Too large for just a single pair of Dipole 15's at high volume, but I'm only looking to get btw 40-50 Hz with these and then there will be large sealed, corner loaded subs a little while later.

Greg

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #4 on: 11 Sep 2010, 02:46 pm »
I thought the Neo10's were a myth. Apparently not  :o What crossover points are you using? (Or can you tell us more?  :thumb: )

The Neo10 are no longer a myth.  Woohoo.  This eally worked out perfectly for me because over the last year, I've purchased and tested about a dozen different drivers for this project and was not really satisfied with any of them.  I was basically getting ready to purchase some of the Lambda TD6 for John @ AE, when these showed up on the Meniscus site for sale.  I immediately bought a pair and sent them to Zaph for testing.  See his results here:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/blog.html

My own results are here:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=37264

There are also some Raal measurements up there on HTGuide as well. As far as xover goes, I haven't settled on anything yet.  I'm using the Digmoda 3 way amp/dsp modules and am really liking them compared to the trusty old Behringer 2496 and multiamp setup.  I have a direct dealership with Digmoda, so if anyone is interested, I can hook you guys up when I place my next order.  See here:

http://www.digmoda.com/

At the moment though, I am using 300Hz and 2KHz both 24dB/oct.  I am not sure if the Raal sounds the slightest bit strained this low or not.  Might have to bump it up to 2.5 or maybe even 3KHz, but until I get running in stereo and do quite a lot of measuring, eqing and listening, I'm not set on any specific points.

My goal is to get the 2nd baffle made this weekend and get the 15's in there for some listening and testing.  Wish me luck.

Greg



studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #5 on: 12 Sep 2010, 04:57 am »
All wood for second baffle cut and ready to be laminated tomorrow.  Woofer hole in first baffle cut.  Wow, what a monster piece of baffle to route out.  Took me 5 passes to get all the way through.  Hope to get woofer mounted up tomorrow for some first pass listening and measurements.

Greg








HT cOz

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Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #6 on: 17 Sep 2010, 02:50 am »
Very interesting project. :thumb:

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #7 on: 17 Sep 2010, 03:04 am »
Work is still progressing.  All drivers for the second baffle are mounted.  Now just have to finish the wiring harness that connects the Digmoda amp to the baffle.  Should have stereo by tomorrow night!

Still waiting on the second pair of Neo10's to show up from Meniscus.  No confirmed backorder date.  Someone besides me has ordered a few I'd guess.  I will continue to run a single per side for now.  If one is good, two must be better, right?  Well, if implemented correctly.  ;)

Greg

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #8 on: 17 Sep 2010, 03:08 am »
Some close-up sweeps of the Lambda.  This is NO eq on the low end.  I just want to show what the woofer inherently does all by itself.   Baffle rolloff only requireing a 6dB/oct shelf @ 80Hz boosted by about 6dB to look pretty flat at the listening position.  Pretty impressive for a single woofer on such a small baffle.




Nyal Mellor

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Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #9 on: 17 Sep 2010, 05:24 pm »
Hey I would be very interested in off axis measurements of that AE Dipole 15 bad boy :)

I am considering it for a project as well.

face

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #10 on: 17 Sep 2010, 05:38 pm »
If or when RAAL introduces a dipole ribbon, do you plan on switching over?

I'd like to try a similar setup to yours in the next few months or so, but with a single cone mid instead. 


Looking forward to seeing your progress!

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #11 on: 17 Sep 2010, 10:44 pm »
Hey I would be very interested in off axis measurements of that AE Dipole 15 bad boy :)

I am considering it for a project as well.

Hoping to do some of that this weekend.  For the Raal and the Neo10s as well.

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #12 on: 17 Sep 2010, 10:53 pm »
If or when RAAL introduces a dipole ribbon, do you plan on switching over?

I'd like to try a similar setup to yours in the next few months or so, but with a single cone mid instead. 


Looking forward to seeing your progress!

The dipole version of the 140-15 is out SOON. See here:

http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue_fiche.php?id=2658&recherche=&numRows=&manufacturiers=22&niveau1=&niveau2=&niveau3=

No plans to try it too though.  If I need rear radiation in the highs, I'll use this instead for since they are cheaper even with my direct pricing with Raal.

http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/LAR1.pdf

My idea for these open baffles is not so much to get the rear radiation, but to avoid box resonance, which I feel I am sensitive to.  I'll will be doing some serious room treatment for behind the baffles in conjunction with the speaker project.

My initial idea was to use a high sensitivity single cone mid also, or an array of 4 in a square like Legacy Audio Whisper or Helix, but when these BG Neos came out, I just had to try them and they are sounding better than any other cone mids I have tried so far.

I do have a Lambda TD6 on the way to test for someone else, so if that sounds good, it should be the perfect candidate for your build.  They have a regular, a higher sensitivity and a dipole version of those too!  Pretty sweet.  John is also gonna have a TD8 some time soon.

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #13 on: 20 Sep 2010, 02:45 am »
Nearfield off axis @ 6 and then 12 inches for the Dipole 15.  we go from 0 - 60 degrees in 10 degree increments.  Looking good up to 1Khz for those who would like to try a large, 2 way system.  I'm using them up to 400Hz max.

Second two picts are the Raal off axis vertically, without and then WITH its little foam pads.  Taken @ 1 meter.

Greg









Nyal Mellor

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Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #14 on: 20 Sep 2010, 11:32 pm »
Thanks! What was the rationale behind using two BG Neo10s?

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #15 on: 21 Sep 2010, 03:20 am »
Thanks! What was the rationale behind using two BG Neo10s?

If one is good, two must be better, right?  Just kidding.  In all seriousness, they have a naturally rising response, so with two working together on even a narrow baffle, the lower end of their range will reinforce more than the highs, hence bringing up their response without as much dipole EQ.  At least that is my plan.  Also gives me lower distortion down at the bottom end of where I plan to run them. 

Greg

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #16 on: 6 Oct 2010, 02:14 am »
Second set of Neos are here!  Should have more info soon.

Greg

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #17 on: 22 Oct 2010, 01:38 am »
Current setup with dual Neo10 per side and RoomTunes Mondo trap directly behind.  Going more for a carioid type response in room rather than dipole.  Much more direct sound that way while still avoiding the box.  More accurate to the recording IMHO.

Greg


Bill Baker

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Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #18 on: 22 Oct 2010, 02:34 am »
Nice combination of drivers Greg.
 It will be interesting to see what you end up with crossing the RAAL so low. I know they like 2.5kHz at the lowest and even that's with 24dB. You may notice some compression that low.
 Keep us posted on the final results. By the way, I love the midrange of the Neo plannars!

studiotech

Re: Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works
« Reply #19 on: 22 Oct 2010, 02:45 am »
Nice combination of drivers Greg.
 It will be interesting to see what you end up with crossing the RAAL so low. I know they like 2.5kHz at the lowest and even that's with 24dB. You may notice some compression that low.
 Keep us posted on the final results. By the way, I love the midrange of the Neo plannars!

Yes, right now I am playing the balancing act of running the Raal low-vs- bumping up the xover to 3 or 3.5Khz and having more lobing issues.  I also feel kind of bad only using the Neo10s from around 300-400 and then getting off them again by 2.5KHz.  Seems like a waste, but then, so is not using the Raal to its fullest either.  Good problem to have, I guess.

Over this last year I bought many drivers to test as mids for this project.  Anything between 3" to 8", both high and low sensitivity.  They all let me down in one way or another until the Neo10's came along.  They are just so clean sounding, no nasty breakups and have tons of resolution.

Will experiment next with different configurations of the mids and tweets.  Maybe both mids formed together into a square and placed under the Raal, or mids over and under the Raal, but with all three on their sides horizontally.

Greg