SACD?

Zerogravity · « **on:** 5 Sep 2010, 08:58 pm »

I have never listened to any SACD audio source and was curious if the audio quality was a significant improvement compared to Redbook or a normal mid-fi CD player? Are there any affordable players worth the trouble with this format, or do you have to spend a significant amount for the worth? I play audio using my computer as a source using Flac or WAV, however I would to experience another option as well. Thanks

Phil A · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 12:10 am »

Some of the new (low end) Sony Blu-Ray players play the format. There is much skill in mixing and mastering and it is also dependent on what source was used to create the SACD. But yes they usually are a nice improvement

Phil A · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 12:11 am »

PS - there's an Audio Circle devoted to hi-res music, including SACD

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 01:14 am »

Quote from: Zerogravity on 5 Sep 2010, 08:58 pm

I have never listened to any SACD audio source and was curious if the audio quality was a significant improvement compared to Redbook or a normal mid-fi CD player? Are there any affordable players worth the trouble with this format, or do you have to spend a significant amount for the worth? I play audio using my computer as a source using Flac or WAV, however I would to experience another option as well. Thanks

Some SACD players have various output filters to be selected to listen, they change the sound in a subtle way(some filters work in frequency others work in time domain), make sure to listen/test all the filters options to know what filter you will like more.
SACD format have a huge musical definition capability, very hugely than a regular CD, so a good analog or PCM master have really great sound in a SACD disc, but IF the original master tape have bad sound or was compressed the SACD disc will show all this badness more prominet than a rbCD.
Luckily these bad sound recordings are few, but I have 3 SACDs this way, they are ELP=Brain Salad Surgery, Mike Oldfield=Tubular Bells and the 3th I not remember right now.
The best sound recording label I listen so far are IsoMike by a mile, distant second place are Opus3 and 3th place are the defunct Telarc(after they begun recording in DSD).
http://www.isomike.com/

2gumby2 · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 10:27 am »

I have a Sony CE595 that plays SACD and they are priced well for waht you get. Personally, I don't notice a big difference between SACD and well recorded Redbook CDs. My favorite Hi-Res format by far is DVD-Audio. Unfortunately, it's pretty much dead as far as I know.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 11:59 am »

I used to think that SACD was just Sony's attempt to redominate the CD market once the original CD patent expired (probably true on some level). So I dismissed the SACD as pure marketing. Then I picked up my first SACD (Telarc's Mussorgsky - Pictures...) at a CD Firesale and was blown away by the difference! Dynamics and punch are far more visceral than any other CD I own. Better 'air' and soundstage than most CDs as well. I'm sure the recording has alot to do with it but the technology itself is promising.

Zerogravity · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 12:58 pm »

"Wow" thanks for all the tips! Although I am aware of the Hi-Rez section, I did not think of researching SACD players there, rest assured I will check it out! I was reading some reasonably priced Jack of all trades type of players, such as the Oppo are a good idea, as it plays all formats fairly well. Others say using a very good basic CD player will play Redbook better then the average Sacd player? I'm not concerened about this as I have other players for standard CD play. I have read some of the Sony's and Pioneer's do O.K. The Sony ES400 is a little above my budget, the Oppo is affordable, however I'm not sure how good the SACD function is? I have seen some reasonably priced Cambridge Audio players at AA, but still not sure how SACD output would be. If anyone can recommend any players for $300 I would appreciate it, I know my budget is low, but I'm willing to buy used as well, just to try out. Thanks

Phil A · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 01:11 pm »

Quote from: Zerogravity on 6 Sep 2010, 12:58 pm

"Wow" thanks for all the tips! Although I am aware of the Hi-Rez section, I did not think of researching SACD players there, rest assured I will check it out! I was reading some reasonably priced Jack of all trades type of players, such as the Oppo are a good idea, as it plays all formats fairly well. Others say using a very good basic CD player will play Redbook better then the average Sacd player? I'm not concerened about this as I have other players for standard CD play. I have read some of the Sony's and Pioneer's do O.K. The Sony ES400 is a little above my budget, the Oppo is affordable, however I'm not sure how good the SACD function is? I have seen some reasonably priced Cambridge Audio players at AA, but still not sure how SACD output would be. If anyone can recommend any players for $300 I would appreciate it, I know my budget is low, but I'm willing to buy used as well, just to try out. Thanks

I am not in a rush or desparate to sell it (although) it is sitting around (was used sparingly in the secondary bedroom and basement systems), but I do have a Sony 2000ES CD/SACD changer laying around that is less than your budget. It also makes an excellent transport with an outboard DAC. What else (systems wise) are you going to be using?

decal · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 01:44 pm »

The player 2gumby2 mentioned above,the Sony SCD-CE595, is a 5 disc SACD/CD changer that very well may be the best bargain in audio(if you can find one).Try the SonyStyle website http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCatalog?langId=-1&searchType=outlet&storeId=10151&docname=ShoppingArea%2FCatalogSection%2FOutletSubsection%2FOutletDisplay_Generic3.jsp&N=4294966022&catalogId=10551&categoryId=6148914691233366668 for a refurbished unit for $60.00(returns accepted).You might have to look for a while because as soon as they become available,they get bought up quickly.I have seen them on other sites for $100-150 dollars,still a good deal in my opinion.I have one in my second system and it does SACD and CD just fine.No,it's not good enough to replace my main SACD rig but if you want to experiment with SACD to see if you can tell the difference I can highly recommend this player.As far as the quality of SACD over redbook,well,that's something you will have to decide yourself.I find SACD a much superior product.A word of warning....SACD's are much more expensive than redbook.You can find some bargains but you have to watch closely for them.The format is far from dead,there are new releases and reissues coming out almost daily.Again,you will have to try SACD for yourself to figure out if the format suits your tastes.Good luck.

Phil A · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 01:46 pm »

Quote from: decal on 6 Sep 2010, 01:44 pm

The player 2gumby2 mentioned above,the Sony SCD-CE595, is a 5 disc SACD/CD changer that very well may be the best bargain in audio(if you can find one).Try the SonyStyle website http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCatalog?langId=-1&searchType=outlet&storeId=10151&docname=ShoppingArea%2FCatalogSection%2FOutletSubsection%2FOutletDisplay_Generic3.jsp&N=4294966022&catalogId=10551&categoryId=6148914691233366668 for a refurbished unit for $60.00(returns accepted).You might have to look for a while because as soon as they become available,they get bought up quickly.I have seen them on other sites for $100-150 dollars,still a good deal in my opinion.I have one in my second system and it does SACD and CD just fine.No,it's not good enough to replace my main SACD rig but if you want to experiment with SACD to see if you can tell the difference I can highly recommend this player.As far as the quality of SACD over redbook,well,that's something you will have to decide yourself.I find SACD a much superior product.A word of warning....SACD's are much more expensive than redbook.You can find some bargains but you have to watch closely for them.The format is far from dead,there are new releases and reissues coming out almost daily.Again,you will have to try SACD for yourself to figure out if the format suits your tastes.Good luck.

That is a great deal. For that kind of money and a $300 budget you can always look for a nice used DAC for CD playback to use with the above unit.

decal · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 01:53 pm »

Quote

For that kind of money and a $300 budget you can always look for a nice used DAC for CD playback to use with the above unit.

Great idea Phil. I use the LITE DAC Ah with mine.I don't know why I didn't mention it to the OP.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 02:01 pm »

You could get the cheap SACD player and run its analog outs into your preamp's Aux and then run the SACD player's digital out into an external dac and then into your preamp's CD input. Then you'd have a pretty flexible playback chain that can handle SACD, have great redbook sound as well as run a Squeezebox setup if you wish. I've considered doing the same thing since my Oppo does not have a digital in for PC listening.

lcrim · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 02:26 pm »

You would also need to use a hybrid disc that contains both SACD and Redbook tracks. Not true of early releases.
I gave up on SACD and DVD-Audio years ago to concentrate on PC based audio. I don't feel that was a mistake.

bacobits1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 02:42 pm »

Same here, gave it up years ago and sold my Sony SCD XA777es. Not enough titles being the biggest reason. My CD right now is way beyond that now in what I have been hearing. I have been resisting the PC route because I have not heard a set up better than hands on CD.

D

bummrush · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 03:26 pm »

No sacd for me ,happy enough as you can be with redbook
I was hoping somebody would pop up with the sony style site for this sacd player,worthless if you want to spend the rest of your life looking for this player that never shows up good luck,you've got way more patience then me,let me know when you find one.

mclsound · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 03:28 pm »

I recently got a Krell SACD mk2 for a great price and have been collecting several SACD's for sound quality only and they are much better than old redbook plus multi channel is amazing with a powerfully clean sounding setup.
You should try it and then you can say that you did,or else it will haunt you.
BUT,a cheap setup is exactly that in sound quality.CHEAP
my opinion

Phil A · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 05:03 pm »

I had my Oppo BDP-83 modded. I bought a Port-ta HDMI switch/audio de-embedder (http://www.port-ta.com/show.asp?id=203) and I convert SACD to 24/88.2kHz PCM (limitations of Oppo chipset) and it goes into my Bryston DAC and gets upsampled to 176.4kHz and so far I like going through the DAC better. Monoprice apparently sells the same device (with their name) for a few pennies under $49. I just ordered one and will see if it is identical (sure looks it from the pictures). With the DAC I have my Squeezebox Touch and other devices running through it. So if someone can use a Blu-Ray player and wants hi-rez too I would think that is a better route to take. A DAC is just more flexible as it allows computer audio and audio from whatever transports or sources (i.e. tuner) you have. So I don't think I'd personally buy another expensive CD or SACD player based on what I hear. I talked a fried of mine into trying it and he was all set to buy a $3k SACD player and last I exchanged E-Mails with him he was satisfied with taking his Oppo BDP-83SE into his DAC for SACDs.

decal · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 05:32 pm »

Quote from: bummrush on 6 Sep 2010, 03:26 pm

No sacd for me ,happy enough as you can be with redbook
I was hoping somebody would pop up with the sony style site for this sacd player,worthless if you want to spend the rest of your life looking for this player that never shows up good luck,you've got way more patience then me,let me know when you find one.

Why such a bummer bummrush?I watched for two weeks and one came up on Sonystyle.Zerogravity I sent you a PM.

pumpkinman · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 06:37 pm »

Anyone looking for a cheap SACD player The Pioneer DV-47A MSRP $1200.00

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homevdeo&1288489939&/Pioneer-Elite-DV-47A-dvd/dvd-a

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Sep 2010, 12:20 am »

Quote from: Zerogravity on 6 Sep 2010, 12:58 pm

"Wow" thanks for all the tips! Although I am aware of the Hi-Rez section, I did not think of researching SACD players there, rest assured I will check it out! I was reading some reasonably priced Jack of all trades type of players, such as the Oppo are a good idea, as it plays all formats fairly well. Others say using a very good basic CD player will play Redbook better then the average Sacd player? I'm not concerened about this as I have other players for standard CD play. I have read some of the Sony's and Pioneer's do O.K. The Sony ES400 is a little above my budget, the Oppo is affordable, however I'm not sure how good the SACD function is? I have seen some reasonably priced Cambridge Audio players at AA, but still not sure how SACD output would be. If anyone can recommend any players for $300 I would appreciate it, I know my budget is low, but I'm willing to buy used as well, just to try out. Thanks

Others say using a very good basic CD player will play Redbook better then the average Sacd player?
I believe a good CD player with a PCM 24/192 upsampler could be this good, no low price though(maybe used).

the Oppo is affordable, however I'm not sure how good the SACD function is?
The Oppo SACD Multi-Channel music performance are great, video performance are great too, the Stereo SACD performance are only ''good''.
Good luck