Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build

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Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #100 on: 22 Sep 2010, 12:01 am »
Ah, to follow up on the high frequencies, I think these speakers sound less bright than other speakers because the high's don't load the room in quite the same way.  Thanks to the waveguide, the mids and highs tend to be about the same loudness when you are off-axis.  On all of my previous speakers, this was NOT the case, as the highs always tended to dominate the sound off-axis, probably due to much better dispersion from the tweeter at the crossover region than the mids were able to attain.

Wind Chaser

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #101 on: 22 Sep 2010, 12:24 am »
How much do you have them towed in?

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #102 on: 22 Sep 2010, 01:37 am »
Toed in to point directly at the sweet spot.  The nice thing is that since they are open baffle, they still fill the room with sound, even off axis.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #103 on: 24 Sep 2010, 04:35 am »
Ah, to follow up on the high frequencies, I think these speakers sound less bright than other speakers because the high's don't load the room in quite the same way.  Thanks to the waveguide, the mids and highs tend to be about the same loudness when you are off-axis.  On all of my previous speakers, this was NOT the case, as the highs always tended to dominate the sound off-axis, probably due to much better dispersion from the tweeter at the crossover region than the mids were able to attain.

What waveguide? Isn't it (the P-Audio 8 inch unit) a coaxial driver?

Anand.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #104 on: 24 Sep 2010, 04:52 am »
The center of the woofer is a short "throat" that acts as the waveguide.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #105 on: 28 Sep 2010, 03:04 am »
Just a quick update, I discovered a problem with the coax driver in my left speaker - it had a pretty large suckout between 900hz and 2.5khz.  At first I thought it was a room effect, or maybe just a break in effect, but it persisted.  So, out comes the Earthworks M23 microphone and the HOLM Impulse measurement software.  Taking some gated response measurements, it's clearly not the room.  I swapped the crossovers between the left and right speakers, and it definitely was not the crossover.  The driver itself was the culprit.  I contacted Danny and a replacement was sent post haste!

Now that both speakers are up and running well, I can say a few preliminary words on imaging and soundstaging.  From a qualitative standpoint they image better and more precisely than any other speaker I've owned.  There are a few areas that really stand out. 

First, depth.  In a setup like mine (speakers wide apart along a long wall), it's easy to get width but hard to get depth.  While not the deepest soundstage I've ever heard anywhere, they are certainly the deepest (by far) I've been able to achieve in my room.  Listening to Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto, the soloist is placed a couple of feet behind the speakers, while the rest of the orchestra is about another six to ten feet behind her (Kyung Wha Chung with the London Symphony Orchestra, with Andre Previn conducting on a 24/96 Decca Legends remaster).

Second, ambiance.  There's a sense of being in a very large hall, which a lot of players assembled to fill out the different orchestral sections.  I think this is a combination of a few things.  First is the open baffle midrange.  Second is the bass foundation that 4 subwoofers give you.  Finally, there's the tonal separation that the P Audio driver is excellent at (especially when driven by an all-tube upstream setup).  Add it all up, and you get a tremendous sense of open space in recordings done in a large venue. 

Third, movement.  When a soloist is playing (a violin, for example), you get a very nice sense of the physical movement of their bow/violin/arm/body.  This is really quite cool and I've very, very rarely heard this with any speaker at all, and never in my own home.  It creates a greater sense of the physicality of the musicians that are creating the music, so that the whole endeavor is more "human" and less like abstract notes floating in space.  Very, very cool.

Fourth, Scale.  Listening to a solo piano recording (such as Pollini playing Beethoven), you get a sense of a physically large instrument with a very large sounding board and jackhammer dynamics as well as excellent legato capabilities. 

So, speaking from strictly an imaging standpoint, I've only heard 2 speakers that are equal or better than what I'm hearing now - the Gedlee Abbey's that Mike Galusha owns, and has set into an awesome dedicated listening room, and a pair of Excelarrays that Gary has also put into a very nice dedicated listening room.  Of course, the tweeters alone on the Excelarray's are more expensive than the ENTIRE KIT for the V2's.

Of course, the speakers aren't even close to being fully broken in yet, so I'm very excited about what is still to come.
« Last Edit: 28 Sep 2010, 06:55 am by Tyson »

kp93300

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #106 on: 28 Sep 2010, 04:55 am »
Hi Tyson
many thanks for sharing the experience.
How would you rate the treble performance when compared to BG tweeter used in Danny's  other speaker such as OB 5 , 7 etc?
kp93300

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #107 on: 28 Sep 2010, 05:32 am »
I've not heard the OB5, OB7, etc, so I cannot comment.  I have heard the LS9, and I like the highs on the V2's much better.  I've also owned VMPS RM40's which use a ribbon tweeter as well, and I like the V2's better than the 40's also.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #108 on: 28 Sep 2010, 06:11 am »
And in case anyone is interested, the V2's measure absolutely flat to 23khz, which is the outer limit of my M23 microphone.

corndog71

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #109 on: 28 Sep 2010, 02:53 pm »
And in case anyone is interested, the V2's measure absolutely flat to 23khz, which is the outer limit of my M23 microphone.

Nice.  :thumb:

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #110 on: 28 Sep 2010, 04:02 pm »
I've not heard the OB5, OB7, etc, so I cannot comment.  I have heard the LS9, and I like the highs on the V2's much better.  I've also owned VMPS RM40's which use a ribbon tweeter as well, and I like the V2's better than the 40's also.

It's really the way the compression tweeter loads the room, from an off axis standpoint, the fact that the design is open baffle, etc...a different sound that is easier to listen to in my experience and much easier to listen to during long listening hauls. Waveguides, however small, do make a positive difference.

Anand.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #111 on: 28 Sep 2010, 11:43 pm »
I pulled the tweeter off today to take a look at the waveguide and it's actually very smart how they implemented it.  It's narrow at the tweeter, and expands out sort of exponentially as it moves outward.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #112 on: 30 Sep 2010, 02:15 am »
Considering how resolving and dynamic they are, I am constantly amazed at how incredibly listenable the V2's are.  I put Billie Holiday back on tonight and the emotion that comes through is just incredible, and there's absolutely zero listening fatigue, even with this 70 year old recording....

PDR

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #113 on: 30 Sep 2010, 04:33 am »
I think I'm gonna call it  "The V thing"

Truly remarkable......if the V-2s blow you away that much....all for the price of half decent bookshelves.......

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #114 on: 30 Sep 2010, 05:38 am »
Yes, the value proposition is truly "off the scale".

Wind Chaser

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #115 on: 30 Sep 2010, 07:49 am »
Today is the last day of the $200 discount.  I thought long and hard about how I might work these into my room, but big, heavy floor standing speakers won't work in my high traffic room.  I have to pull my speakers out every time I want to listen and then put them away when I'm done, so small bookshelf’s are the easiest to manage in that regard.  Too bad cause I don't think anything will come close the V2s given the cost, even factoring the time and materials to build them.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #116 on: 30 Sep 2010, 07:57 am »
Sorry man, I wish you could hear these speakers.  Without a doubt they are the best speakers I have ever owned.
« Last Edit: 30 Sep 2010, 04:56 pm by Tyson »

Wind Chaser

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #117 on: 30 Sep 2010, 11:07 am »
I can imagine.  I thought about just buying the coaxial and mounting it on an OB, but that wouldn't cut it by itself; plus it would still be more inconvenient than small mini monitors.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #118 on: 2 Oct 2010, 12:21 am »
Jason (Pez) came by today from some extensive listening and he was nice enough to bring along his super-badass Simple SE tube amp.  I've heard this amp in his system many times (driving just the mids on a pair of fully active VMPS RM40's), and I've heard it driving my Ella's in the past.  Every time it sounded better than my own tube amps, a pair of highly modded VT70's from Bob Latino. 

But not this time.  On the V2's, it sounded too bright in the highs, and too muddy in the bass.  The ST70's really allowed the V2's to sing, and the Simple SE was not bad, but just not nearly as full, rich, or dynamic sounding. 

I've probably already said more than enough on the V2's sound as they break in, but I'm hoping that Pez stops by here and gives some of his impressions on the V2s from today's session. 

Pez

Re: Tyson's V2 Venuette DIY Build
« Reply #119 on: 2 Oct 2010, 03:08 am »
So haven't been posting much lately, I rarely get the chance to actually sit down for long enough periods of time to actually read and contribute to conversations because I'm chasing around a 17 month old non-stop.

I have been really wanting to hear Tysons new speakers for quite a while and finally had the opportunity to get over to his house and give them some listening time. I was pleasantly surpised by a couple of things. 1st I was amazed that Tyson was able to get great sound out of a set of OB speakers in his relatively small and very oddly shaped living room.

The Ellas never seemed to load the bass in his room properly, they tended to have way too much reinforcement on one side of the room and a suck out on the other which was audible no matter what he did. The V2s did a much better job of giving a smooth response despite the room.

I loved the liveliness they bring to the presentation. Rather than your standard fare 'this is a great recording played through a hifi' presentation you get from most audiodork grade speakers, the V2s give you a live at the club sort of feel that lends itself very well to orchestral music and quite a few rock pieces we listened to.

The only downside to the V2s IMO was when you really cranked things up the room loads in a way that can smear the sound quite severly. Lesson, room treatment is a must if you are a freak that listens to music at 100+ dB which is what we were pushing in this instance. Not a problem in ranges of 80-90dB, levels most reasonable people would listen at.

As far as the amplifiers, it was a mixed bag. My Simple SE or any SET amp for that matter like an easy load without too much impedence nutiness. In my system I am using the amp to run JUST the ribbon tweeter in fully active mode and have seperate amps for the ribbon midrange and bass section, as close to ideal as possible when it comes to impedence. The V2s have a passive crossover, running both the midrange driver (which according to Tyson is somewhat difficult to run impedence-wise) and the tweeter (Which is easy to run) We found that the Simple SE just didn't have the grip to really make them sing because of this. It wasn't unlistenable, it was just unimpressive, especially in comparison to the ST70s output. Lesson- have a good/great/excellent/ push pull tube amp or a decent solid state amp with plenty of high current capability to give these babies what they need.

As Tyson said, the V2s still need quite a bit more break in and it was apparent. Once they settle in I will add more comments.