[werd]

The reason I don't pay much attention to the cable hype is many fold.
.

Second, most respected in-house engineering-based manufacturers such as Bryston, Boulder, McIntosh, etc...have power supplies that filter out any of the garbage that comes across the line so the idea that some passive 3-6' piece of wire is going to make a tinkers damn difference is laughable. Sure, there are rational arguments for surge protection and such... but the passive filtering effects of ANY PC, as related to benefiting a propelry designed power supply, is pure BS from an engineering standpoint.

I didn't give this enough respect as i should have earlier.  Getting into the 14B/7B or 28B puts you into choke filtered power supplies. IME they are as an important in getting the sensation of air in between the instruments as cabling and conditioning, that i talked about in the "expensive cable thread"

[KnowTalent]

I didn't give this enough respect as i should have earlier.  Getting into the 14B/7B or 28B puts you into choke filtered power supplies. IME they are as an important in getting the sensation of air in between the instruments as cabling and conditioning, that i talked about in the "expensive cable thread"

 

even with that I still do not totally discount the possiblity of AC cords "effecting" a circuit.  BUT my frustration lies in the fact that no one takes the time or makes the effort to correlate any such "effects" with a defineable measurement(s).
If there are R,C,L properties that create some sort of instability in either the input of output of a dedicated piece of equipment, there "should" be a way to take a measurement that would indicate how these properties are effecting either the individual piece OR the system synergy as a whole.  Granted, this is not easy to do but it lends more credibility to any arguments of hearing a "change" vs. simply stating A/B listeing results which imo are heavily biased and subject to placebo effect.

I've seen people install fat AC cords on 15A outlets and that just makes me apoplectic
...though eventually the caffeine fades and I ask myself why should I care   

[KnowTalent]

Still waiting on SNR measurements for Volume settings @ 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock

[KnowTalent]

I wonder what would be great value type of deal.Coming up with 70k for cables it just too far out there for this oldguy.
Wounder what is being used by member here.Somehow though I doubt there will be a consensus,but still interesting nonetheless.

PC & Speaker...So just what are we using guys and girls?

Over the past 10 years I've owned/demoed several dozen combinations of power cord, IC, digital and speaker wire ranging anywhere from $100 to as high as $2000 (both retail).
Currently I am using DH Labs Q-10 speaker wire, AQ Sidewinder and Straightwire Chorus ICs with Parasound 12 ga AC cords running from a Furman 15i Reference hooked to a dedicated 20A outlet.

My choice of cable is based first upon quality of wire-to-connector termination then connector termination integrity (as in how well a spade fits the binding post and how tight the RCA mating connections are)...and once these two criteria are met I go shopping for the cheapest deal I can find on audiogon or elsewhere.

[James Tanner]

Still waiting on SNR measurements for Volume settings @ 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock

Hi,

No 'official' in house measurements at this point so I will see if the tec will make some for me.

james

[KnowTalent]

Hi,

No 'official' in house measurements at this point so I will see if the tec will may some for me.

james

James,

 

It would be highly instructive to know the SNR at the 9, 12 and 3 o'clock positions!
Not many manufacturers would take the time to do this...let alone report it

[werd]

even with that I still do not totally discount the possiblity of AC cords "effecting" a circuit.  BUT my frustration lies in the fact that no one takes the time or makes the effort to correlate any such "effects" with a defineable measurement(s).
If there are R,C,L properties that create some sort of instability in either the input of output of a dedicated piece of equipment, there "should" be a way to take a measurement that would indicate how these properties are effecting either the individual piece OR the system synergy as a whole.  Granted, this is not easy to do but it lends more credibility to any arguments of hearing a "change" vs. simply stating A/B listeing results which imo are heavily biased and subject to placebo effect.

I've seen people install fat AC cords on 15A outlets and that just makes me apoplectic
...though eventually the caffeine fades and I ask myself why should I care   

Try and find a kettle with a detachable cord, they exist. Use a regular cord and measure how long it takes for the water to reach a boil. Redo the test with an after market cord or any cord(it doesnt matter), the big cords should bring the water to a boil much quicker. This test demonstrates the difference between the two cords in conductivity. A faster boil will amount to better handling of transients imo.

Anyways who cares. I look for cables that help me identify to my taste. I look for power cables in amps that power the different parts of the sound stage that I identify with. I look for nice clean highs with good cymbal resolution and snare taps.

In digital i look for timing issues and reduced high freq glare smear.

In pre's i look for cables that lay back the sound stage or make it more forward. Pre and power cables are intertwine-able for the most part but if your narrow it down it makes it easier to approach each component.

[werd]

Thats just my own assessment, everyone should have or develop their own recipe for choosing cables or any component for that matter. Notice not one measurement. Its not important to me, only my tastes i really know how to measure or rely on.

[vegasdave]

I didn't give this enough respect as i should have earlier.  Getting into the 14B/7B or 28B puts you into choke filtered power supplies. IME they are as an important in getting the sensation of air in between the instruments as cabling and conditioning, that i talked about in the "expensive cable thread"

So, the 4B doesn't have that?

[werd]

So, the 4B doesn't have that?

No and its a biggie...... the 4B and 14B are tonally the same. But the 14B just has way more air between the instruments and better transients.

[BrysTony]

From what I have learned on this forum, using a Torus for the 4B will provide the same effect.  The 7B/14B/28B amps were upgraded to the same type transformers used in the Torus.
Tony

[vegasdave]

No and its a biggie...... the 4B and 14B are tonally the same. But the 14B just has way more air between the instruments and better transients.

I see. I need that 14B, damnit. I can't afford it! Blah.

[werd]

From what I have learned on this forum, using a Torus for the 4B will provide the same effect.  The 7B/14B/28B amps were upgraded to the same type transformers used in the Torus.
Tony

No i wish that was true. The Torus transformer sits in front of the 4B and gives it equivalent power recovery as the 14/B. But you don't get the filtering imo that the choke gives you. Its pretty obvious in fact.

[werd]

I see. I need that 14B, damnit. I can't afford it! Blah.

You probably should somehow... the improvements in air, resolution and transients easily justifies the double the price from the 4B. Going to the 28's is another story for cost.  I am sure its fantastic buts its like 13k more than  like maybe 3 or 4k more for the 14B. But now you in the 28's ballpark for sound with the choke and transformers.

[vegasdave]

Ok, cool. Thanks for the info. But, what am I gonna do with the 4B? Sell it, or keep it as a back up amp?

[werd]

Ok, cool. Thanks for the info. But, what am I gonna do with the 4B? Sell it, or keep it as a back up amp?

Thats what i did....SELL IT!!!!

[BrysTony]

You probably should somehow... the improvements in air, resolution and transients easily justifies the double the price from the 4B. Going to the 28's is another story for cost.  I am sure its fantastic buts its like 13k more than  like maybe 3 or 4k more for the 14B. But now you in the 28's ballpark for sound with the choke and transformers.

What are the pros/cons for going with two 7Bs vs the 14B.  Space for the 2nd box is obvious.  Better cooling with two boxes?? Anything else??
Tony

[werd]

What are the pros/cons for going with two 7Bs vs the 14B.  Space for the 2nd box is obvious.  Better cooling with two boxes?? Anything else??
Tony

Brystony

I considered the 7B's but there are hidden costs associated with the 7B. Obviously power cords for me... you need two. Also i would  have only done the 7B's if could get them right behind each speaker. That would have required a reinventing of my wiring and outlets feeding each 7B. And then you have to cable it. Here xlr's would be needed for longer length runs... needed those. I also would want to shorten my speaker cable. Since i loved the speaker cable i used i would never have found it used at the shorter lengths i wanted, and i hate cutting up good cable to make shorter lengths that are manufacture terminated.


The 14B fit right into my system with no real changes. 

[Elizabeth]

The 7B vs a 14B: 7B each amp next to speaker, SHORT speaker cords. Many find that to be a BIG positive factor for monoblocks. I mean if you have expensive speaker cables.. WOW. the cost difference could pay for some equipment!

[werd]

The 7B vs a 14B: 7B each amp next to speaker, SHORT speaker cords. Many find that to be a BIG positive factor for monoblocks. I mean if you have expensive speaker cables.. WOW. the cost difference could pay for some equipment!

No that just isn't so, you need longer xlr's and if they are the same make as speaker cable, one higher cost just gets transfered to another lower cost. It evens out.