New Ultravalve Amp & Insight SL+ Preamp FIRST IMPRESSIONS

adydula · « **on:** 24 Jul 2010, 03:11 am »

Well its been 4 weeks or so and the new Insight SL+ Pre Amp with HT bypass switch and the AVA Ultravalve amp arrived today via UPS. Packed very well. Franks cocoon packaging for the Ultravalve is Ingenious..the amp was delivered in fine shape with all the tubes intact. The preamp packaging was well done too.

The Ultravalve looked 'small' to me. But the weight of it when you lift it out of the box felt like a ton of bricks...this thing is SOLID and built like a tank.

I guess when you spend $1699 or so on an amp you expect it to be big...see the vanity creeping in here...lol

Its really a very nice package, the shiny chrome looking stainless steel is very well done, the bias pots are easy to adjust and you can easliy adjust them with a screwdriver OR even your fingers. Frank included several pages of instructions for the amp, operation, bias adjustment etc.

The front nameplate is nicely done. Simple. Elegant. The power on switch is easy to access and on the front panel.

The line cord is hard wired, not removeable, and I will say this is a LONG cord..no skimping here. It measured 8 Feet long!!! I thought I might have to get a step up transformer in case of a voltage drop!! ( little humor here!)...This length is great! Thanks Frank. Same for the PreAmp line cord.

I turned the amp on and waited 15min or so to check the bias voltage it was a little low from the 1.6 volts recommended and I called Frank late Friday PM and said it was fine an d probably due to line voltage discrepencies...my 110VAC in North Carolina vs Franks in Minn.

Ok I am not going to say much about the preamp by itself, but will in the near future..this is a first impressions about the combination for 2 ch listening for now..HT will follow once I move the existing stuff around etc..

So I unhooked the SongTowers from the Onkyo 805 AVR and connected them to the 4 Ohm outputs on the Ultravalve. Connected the Oppo BD83 SE analog outs to the AVA Insight Pre's CD inputs, and the Pre outs to the Ultravalve inputs. The input connectors on the Ultravalve are very nice!! They really look high quality to me.

So we let it warm up for 20 min or so and pop in a well know demo CD..from Mr Jim Salk, you know that guy who makes those neat speakers somewhere up there in Michigan land!! LOL..

I put the cd in, the first sound I heard was a familiar female voice of Jennifer Warnes.I was immediately shocked...

I hadnt even made it back to my listening chair, the sweet spot...I instantly new somthing was really different.

I can tell you that what I was hearing was a dramatic difference from what I have been heearing for over 1.5 years in the same room.

I had to go downstairs and get my wife to come up and listen...she is ruthless when it comes to letting me know if the sound is good or bad or just different or if I just wasted a bunch of hard earned bucks...

She normally doesnt sit down but she did and said "Play Me Something Good" this is code for put on the 'EAGLES' and play "One of these Nights" I groaned because its not a DEMO recording, but I did and she smiled. I smiled. It was really GOOD. We listend to a few tunes and we both were blown away at what we were hearing.

So now you say "What were you hearing!!"

Ok...The first impression was the 'soundstage' its always been great, but it blossomed to an entirely new level. Wider and Deeper. Its dramatic. My wife got up to make sure I didnt have any of my 6.1 setup surrounds on...she was amazed at the imaging improvements and openess.

One of the great things about the SongTowers is their ability to play music clearly and you can hear the words etc..this quality has been raised to a new level.

I hate to be 'had' for the sake of it..but its like I have a new set of SongTowers..its that dramatic. I walked away for an hour and came back to see if this was just a getting new stuff syndrome or was this improvement real...

I played many of the Salk Demo cuts, Mino Cinelu, Jennifer Warnes, Walter Hyatt, Doreen Smith, BOBm's demo disk, even the Beatles Remastered Abbey Road and a few Donald Fagen cuts...WOW.

Comment on strings...FANTASTIC..Laurie Andersons "Life on a String" Track 4 sounds so very lifelike, superb sounding violin...this entire cd is totally transformed by this combo and the Salks.

The high end is wonderful, cleaner, clearer, cymbals and all those tingley sounding things , wire brushes etc sound so likelike...

There is some real magic going on here....this little 35watt per channel tube amp is the 'HEAT' (yes it gets warm!! lol)...I dont know what or why but its like the article in Absolute Sound said..4 star, marraige made in audio heaven.

The amp has MORE than enough power to drive the SongTowers to painful sound levels...Never heard anything like clipping or distortion..Both my wife and I said many times ' I never heard that before..." The drums in the Abbey Road CD were to die for...

I will wire it up with the LR outs from the AVR to try the amp in HT mode over the next few days.
Re calibrate the HT etc.

So this is all from 3 hrs or so of listening this late pm and evening. I am anxiously waiting for tomorrow to arrive to listen to many of my old favorites all over again!

I would NOT hesitate to recommed the Ultravalve Amp or the Insight SL+ Pre to anyone with a pair of SongTowers...or any pair of efficient speakers.

Most of us are on budgets and when we spend our hard earned dollars we want to get our moneys worth and be appreciated as customers. Frank makes good stuff and has a real 'winner here 'with the Ultravalve for sure...This amp is not cheap for a lot of us but it delivers a wonderful sound...

I was very anxioius getting a tube amp with only 35 watts, and I was doubtful whether I would keep it or use Franks "30 day" send it back if your not happy option!

All these fears are gone, and this Amp will be in my listening room for years to come!!

Congratulations Frank...

Alex

JerryM · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 03:22 am »

Welcome to the AVA group!

It's gonna get better sounding, too!

Man, you must have a ton of Demo discs to re-listen to!!

Congrats, Alex. Enjoy the music.

Have fun,
Jerry

martyo · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 03:42 am »

Thanks for the write-up Alex. Awesome that you're so pleased.

Mudslide · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 01:09 pm »

Great review, Alex. Many thanks.

While I've heard some of Frank's gear before, our focus at the time was more on the loudspeakers and presentation variety (we had a number of amps running LOTS of speakers). Admittedly different from your Ultravalve...but I'm really looking forward to hearing his Vision DAC/preamp and Insight+ Double 240 driving all our speakers at the Great Northwest GTG this September. (See it here...further reports to follow the gig....http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67150.)

Personally, I'll definitely be paying particular attention to loudspeaker synergy with the AVA gear. I've been aching (and saving my Pepsi cans!) for an upgrade in my office 2-channel system.

Congrats on your new toys!

adydula · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 01:36 pm »

Morning!

It almost seems like Frank has a hidden DSP in there somewhere...maybe it is a AVA Ultra Neo: Music 7.1 THX Ultra 2 soundfield??

Alex

Oh Mudslide! Nice Dog!

HAITIMAN · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 02:15 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 24 Jul 2010, 01:36 pm

Morning!

It almost seems like Frank has a hidden DSP in there somewhere...maybe it is a AVA Ultra Neo: Music 7.1 THX Ultra 2 soundfield??

Alex

Oh Mudslide! Nice Dog!

Nice writeup. I concur. The ST's sound very nice with a good tube amplifier. Seems like you got a lot of value and performance for the money, there. I would love to hear Frank's gear, (and I am on the verge of purchasing his DAC, BTW) Buy handmade in America!

jaw5279 · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 02:57 pm »

Wonderful news Alex!!!

You just turned my own anticipation factor for my Ultravalve order to arrive up to between "can hardly wait" to "Holy smoke, when is it getting here!!!!"

John.

ArthurDent · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 03:02 pm »

Good write-up Alex, thanks for sharing.

Glad to hear the wait was well worth it, should be fun rediscovering all those fine tunes you've been cataloging in the Salk 'Demo' thread. Enjoy & stay cool.

cacophony777 · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 05:12 pm »

Can somebody explain to me how an amp can dramatically deepen and widen the soundstage? I've always thought soundstage was determined solely by speakers and room acoustics. Thanks.

newzooreview · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: cacophony777 on 24 Jul 2010, 05:12 pm

Can somebody explain to me how an amp can dramatically deepen and widen the soundstage? I've always thought soundstage was determined solely by speakers and room acoustics. Thanks.

Phase information can be lost or distorted at any point in the chain in my experience. I have an in phase/out of phase test track, and I noticed that the out of phase recording was less directional and more enveloping after I made a change to my source components.

To give an extreme example--you can have the same speakers and room and switch your preamp to mono or play a mono source and lose soundstage altogether. It's an obvious example of the fact that the speakers and room can only act on the quality (and that means phase, timing, frequency response, etc.) of the signal coming into them.

HAITIMAN · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 05:29 pm »

Quote from: cacophony777 on 24 Jul 2010, 05:12 pm

Can somebody explain to me how an amp can dramatically deepen and widen the soundstage? I've always thought soundstage was determined solely by speakers and room acoustics. Thanks.

A bit of a mystery. I recently rolled the 12AU7 and 12AX7 tubes in my Rogue for vintage jobs, (Tele, Clear Tops, and Tungsram). Was skeptical....but sure enough.....a fairly forward midrange settled back into the middle of the soundstage.....also more depth overall, (as in layers of instruments),and definitely more width. Nothing else in the room changed. Don't ask me why or how....but an amp can deepen and widen the soundstage. In my case....absolutely no doubt.

WGH · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Jul 2010, 06:38 pm »

Quote from: cacophony777 on 24 Jul 2010, 05:12 pm

Can somebody explain to me how an amp can dramatically deepen and widen the soundstage?

AVA electronics have closely matched caps for the left and right channels, that must have something to do with the imaging:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83743.msg809606#msg809606

Recently I replaced my Insight 440 with an Anthem PVA-2 and imaging became flat and diffuse. Putting the (upgraded) 440 back in brought back the magic. I also use an Insight+ EC pre-amp and a nice synergy happens when all the electronics have an AVA logo.

Wayne

adydula · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 01:07 am »

Cacophony777,

I have been doing this stuff for 40+ years. Lots of stuff good and not so good.
I cant for the life of me tell you why the soundstage is so different.

Remember its a new amp and a new preamp.

Today I spent a lot of time listening and going back to the AVR and the sound is again very different in a very good way to me.

The soundstage difference is the biggest thing, along with it justs sound clearer (is that a word?)...I though about it and its like I got a ribbon tweeter upgrade without the ribbon tweeter. The presentation is more accurate, more critical...you seem to hear everything good or bad.

I did compare the AVR's preamp with the AVA and its not even close..the AVA Insight SL + is clearer sounding. More on this later.

I tired using my new Squeezebox Touch which is a neat toy for finding your tunes fast...I did not like what I was hearing, a decided lack of bass and fullness compared to the analog out from the OPPO BD 83SE. The analog section in the OPPO going into the new Pre and Ultravalve is a devastating combination.

The other interesting discovery was I thought that the SongTowers were showing me all that they could possibly 'put out' I was wrong. This combination is really better in allowing sounds to be better articulated compared to the AVR pre/amp..not that thje AVR is bad, its really good, but this upgrade or 'change' is mind boggling.

Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter" was very good before its know just better in the presentation, more lifelike, more accurate, things in the songs are crisper, airy, just in that magic relm.
I think I will keep this setup for a long time, the Oppo to the Pre and Ultravalve amp...

I think the only thing that could make this picture even sound better is to upgrade the speakers to the HT2 TL's but my room is small and the Song's fill it up nicely.

Ok now for a shutdown for a day or so to re-cable and rearrange the stuff now that we know we will be keeping the new additions.

All the best
Alex

mchuckp · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Jul 2010, 01:23 pm »

Alex,

If you are looking for a new way to upgrade your system without a speaker upgrade, get some room treatments if you haven't already. We have very similar systems. I was shocked when I got my treatments up.

Like you, I've already started thinking about HT2-TL's.

Hoping next year.

gjs_cds · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Jul 2010, 01:33 pm »

I bet the clarity and soundstage are a consequence of the ridiculously fast slew rate. Our auditory systems are pretty darn sensitve to the temporal domain.

Nuance · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Jul 2010, 02:10 pm »

Woohoo - That's great news, Alex. This hobby is too fun!

Enjoy pal!

adydula · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Jul 2010, 05:03 pm »

So I did notice that Frank did say they compared the ESS Sabre Dacs that are used in the Oppo BD83SE to the Wolfsons he uses in the AVA Vision Dac...my mouth is watering, but there is a budget!! $%^&^%$%^

This would solve the Squeezebox lower quality sound...would like to be able to compare a Vision Dac to the Oppo first hand...maybe Santa Claus will suprise me!!

Its been lots of fun listening and learning...I have some more smaller improvements I am working on and will report back soon!

Alex

mchuckp · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Jul 2010, 07:20 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 27 Jul 2010, 05:03 pm

So I did notice that Frank did say they compared the ESS Sabre Dacs that are used in the Oppo BD83SE to the Wolfsons he uses in the AVA Vision Dac...my mouth is watering, but there is a budget!! $%^&^%$%^

This would solve the Squeezebox lower quality sound...would like to be able to compare a Vision Dac to the Oppo first hand...maybe Santa Claus will suprise me!!

Its been lots of fun listening and learning...I have some more smaller improvements I am working on and will report back soon!

Alex

Just remember that if you go into the DAC market make sure you look at features and specs carefully. There are a bazillion DACs on the market and many of them are limited in some way. Ex. Can't support higher rez formats, usb limitations, volume control, etc. There's certain things people want or need. It's just like shopping for a preamp. Make sure you figure out what YOU need out of it.

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Jul 2010, 08:17 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 27 Jul 2010, 05:03 pm

So I did notice that Frank did say they compared the ESS Sabre Dacs that are used in the Oppo BD83SE to the Wolfsons he uses in the AVA Vision Dac...my mouth is watering, but there is a budget!! $%^&^%$%^

This would solve the Squeezebox lower quality sound...would like to be able to compare a Vision Dac to the Oppo first hand...maybe Santa Claus will suprise me!!

Its been lots of fun listening and learning...I have some more smaller improvements I am working on and will report back soon!

Alex

Wow Xmas in July! Does Santa come tonight or is it too late?

adydula · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Aug 2010, 01:18 am »

This amp just keeps getting better!! I have about 15hours on it and I notice it takes about 15 min or so to warm up and then the magic starts to happen, kind of like opening up a great bottle of wine and letting it breath.

I was listening to some 1986 Larry Carlton acoustic guitar and all those little musical precussion things were making me just smile REALLY big!.

I am now revisiting many cds that I have listened to when I first got my SongTowers last year and the combination is dynamite.

All the best!
Alex