[Rick Craig]

TC Sounds drivers and DSP amplification. Stay tuned...

 

[Construct]

TC Sounds drivers and DSP amplification. Stay tuned...

 

If the box is made right the Tc sounds are monsters.  I priced out a 12 and 15"  driver for a project and the drivers alone are $400-$500 each.  Nice xmax and power handling to say the least.
 

[jtwrace]

If the drivers cost that much, I strongly looking at the Rythmik servo subs.  I have them and am very happy.

[Construct]

The LMS-R 12" subwoofer brings linear motor technology to a 3" diameter voice coil driver. Capable of over 2" of peak-to-peak excursion with absolute linearity, this driver is in a low-frequency sound-quality class of its own! Equally suitable for sealed or vented enclosures, this driver delivers both unsurpassed sound quality and SPL! Used in world-renowned recording studios. Specifications: • Power handling: 1,000 watts RMS/4,000 watts peak • VCdia: 3" • Le: 4.7 mH • Impedance: 2 ohms per coil x 2 • RE: 3.96 ohms • Frequency range: 15 - 150 Hz • Fs: 28.0 Hz • SPL: 84.5 dB • Vas: 1.38 cu. ft. • Qms: 6.70 • Qes: 0.46 • Qts: 0.43 • Xmax: 29.4 • Dimensions: Overall diameter 12.60", Cutout diameter 11.16", Depth 7.15" • Weight: 38.2 lbs. Note: All specifications are with voice coils connected in series.High-temperature low eddy-current stainless steel voicecoil former Patent-pending 2+2 ohm dual voicecoil LMS motor technology]10" linear spider suspension with large integral lead-wires 195 oz. magnet motor structure ]Patent-pending XBR tall profile surround for 3" peak-to-peak travel Field-replaceable top assembly system Large anti-flux-modulation shorting ring Single dish aircraft-grade Aluminum alloy cone High BL for efficient low-frequency performance and small enclosure designs[/]

[Rick Craig]

If the box is made right the Tc sounds are monsters.  I priced out a 12 and 15"  driver for a project and the drivers alone are $400-$500 each.  Nice xmax and power handling to say the least.
 

Yes, the motor is expensive and that translates to the end cost. Our subwoofer pricing will be very reasonable though and we'll offer different cabinet and amplifier options.

[Rick Craig]

If the drivers cost that much, I strongly looking at the Rythmik servo subs.  I have them and am very happy.

Have you ever seen a Klippel test of those drivers without a servo attached?

[jtwrace]

Have you ever seen a Klippel test of those drivers without a servo attached?

Nope.  I'm looking forward to your posted data though.   

[ebag4]

Have you ever seen a Klippel test of those drivers without a servo attached?

Why would you ever run a servo based driver without the servo?

Best,
Ed

[Rick Craig]

Why would you ever run a servo based driver without the servo?

Best,
Ed

The Klippel system is the industry standard for driver testing and design. It would be used to test the driver's capabilities before it's installed in a subwoofer of any type (sealed,TL,servo,ported,etc).

[ebag4]

Thanks Rick.  Yes, I am aware that it is a test of drivers without enclosures but the servo mechanism is part of the electronics of the driver, not the cabinet alignment.  Does the Klipple test require that the driver be driven by a specific amp that would preclude the use of a servo amp or is it simply a measuring tool.  Sorry if this is too basic a question, also apologize for the off topic nature of this question.  Please feel free to remove the post if necessary.

Best,
Ed

[jtwrace]

The Klippel system is the industry standard for driver testing and design. It would be used to test the driver's capabilities before it's installed in a subwoofer of any type (sealed,TL,servo,ported,etc).

Thanks Rick.  Yes, I am aware that it is a test of drivers without enclosures but the servo mechanism is part of the electronics of the driver, not the cabinet alignment.  Does the Klipple test require that the driver be driven by a specific amp that would preclude the use of a servo amp or is it simply a measuring tool.  Sorry if this is too basic a question, also apologize for the off topic nature of this question.  Please feel free to remove the post if necessary.

Best,
Ed

This is all good info IMO.  Let's hear it!

[lowtech]

To phrase it another way, would you buy an amplifier that relied on enormous amounts of negative feedback in order to make it listenable? 

Perhaps a better approach is to design a driver that inherently is more linear over its' operating range?  Klippel measurements are used (by manufacturers) to design better performing drivers. 

That said, who has seen Klippel measurements for the Rythmik drivers?

[Rick Craig]

Thanks Rick.  Yes, I am aware that it is a test of drivers without enclosures but the servo mechanism is part of the electronics of the driver, not the cabinet alignment.  Does the Klipple test require that the driver be driven by a specific amp that would preclude the use of a servo amp or is it simply a measuring tool.  Sorry if this is too basic a question, also apologize for the off topic nature of this question.  Please feel free to remove the post if necessary.

Best,
Ed

No problem - I encourage open discussion here and I think it benefits everyone. Regardless of whether a servo is used or not the woofers still share common traits such as distortion created by the motor or suspension. So even before the servo is applied you have to consider these issues. As far as incorporating a servo within a Klippel test I don't know - probably not is my guess.

[jtwrace]

No problem - I encourage open discussion here and I think it benefits everyone. Regardless of whether a servo is used or not the woofers still share common traits such as distortion created by the motor or suspension. So even before the servo is applied you have to consider these issues. As far as incorporating a servo within a Klippel test I don't know - probably not is my guess.

Isn't the end result (sound) really what matters?  A short block engine is great but without the heads it's useless.  Or the nicest speaker cabinets that you can build are great but without the drivers, wire and crossover they don't sound good. 

Servo-
Maybe the driver doesn't measure as well as others but with the servo it may be better.  Isn't that what matters?  The whole package.

[ebag4]

No problem - I encourage open discussion here and I think it benefits everyone. Regardless of whether a servo is used or not the woofers still share common traits such as distortion created by the motor or suspension. So even before the servo is applied you have to consider these issues. As far as incorporating a servo within a Klippel test I don't know - probably not is my guess.

Thanks for the reply Rick.  It occurs to me that if you are designing a driver to use with a servo feedback system the driver itself will be designed differently than a standard driver, for one thing I would bet it's suspension is considerably different and would not measure properly if it's servo system is not in place to return the driver to it's correct postion.  This alone would make the Klippel test inacurrate or at least not representative of real world conditions for the servo based driver.

Best,
Ed

[Rick Craig]

To phrase it another way, would you buy an amplifier that relied on enormous amounts of negative feedback in order to make it listenable? 

Perhaps a better approach is to design a driver that inherently is more linear over its' operating range?  Klippel measurements are used (by manufacturers) to design better performing drivers. 

That said, who has seen Klippel measurements for the Rythmik drivers?

Very well said. 

[ebag4]

To phrase it another way, would you buy an amplifier that relied on enormous amounts of negative feedback in order to make it listenable? 

Perhaps a better approach is to design a driver that inherently is more linear over its' operating range?  Klippel measurements are used (by manufacturers) to design better performing drivers. 

That said, who has seen Klippel measurements for the Rythmik drivers?

Very well said. 

I don't think so, I believe a more appropriate question would be:

To phrase it another way, would you buy an amplifier that relied on enormous amounts of negative feedback in order to make it listenable accurate?

In this instance the answer is a definitive YES!

Best,
Ed

[jtwrace]

I don't think so, I believe a more appropriate question would be:

To phrase it another way, would you buy an amplifier that relied on enormous amounts of negative feedback in order to make it listenable accurate?

In this instance the answer is a definitive YES!

Best,
Ed

Now that's very well said.   

[Rick Craig]

Isn't the end result (sound) really what matters?  A short block engine is great but without the heads it's useless.  Or the nicest speaker cabinets that you can build are great but without the drivers, wire and crossover they don't sound good. 

Servo-
Maybe the driver doesn't measure as well as others but with the servo it may be better.  Isn't that what matters?  The whole package.

It's like a good meal - you have to start with quality ingredients. Yes, the end result is the most important thing.

[Rick Craig]

I don't think so, I believe a more appropriate question would be:

To phrase it another way, would you buy an amplifier that relied on enormous amounts of negative feedback in order to make it listenable accurate?

In this instance the answer is a definitive YES!

Best,
Ed

The servo cannot correct everything.