The CLASS D stereo amp discussion

David C · « **Reply #40 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 01:21 pm »

I have never owned a tube amp but have owned a GAS Son of Ampzilla and Arcam SS amps and now have the Nuforce 9V3s and I absolutely love them. They drive B&W speakers and they are simply the best I have heard. I listened to classe and naim before I got the Nuforce amps and they were head and heels above the others I listened to. I have a Nuforce P9 pre amp and will soon be the proud (hopefully) owner of the new EE DAC that has both SS and tube outputs. It shipped yesterday and I cant wait to hear it.

If you have not heard these amps give them a try. I dont know if it is still on but Nuforce used to have a 30 day trial

David

Barry_NJ · « **Reply #41 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 02:20 pm »

Quote from: dflee on 25 Jul 2010, 12:41 pm

So if I spent $1,200 on an A, A/B and would like to find an equivalent or better, Should there not be a class D that would fit the bill for less. I am going to look up the Wyred amp but can anyone make any other suggestions? Present amp is delivering 140X4 into 8 and 225x4 into 4.

Thanks
Don

If you're looking to spend less than $1,200, I think your best bet is likely DIY with the Class-D audio kits discussed in the 'Cheap and Cheerful Hi-Fi' forum. Along with the Wyred-4-Sound amps are the D-Sonic offerings but the 4 channel offerings from these companies would be over the price point you mention.

jazzcourier · « **Reply #42 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 02:34 pm »

If you are serious about Wyred amps and are looking for great deals on the used market the pre amp to look for is the STP Special edition,which can go for as low as 1500.Match that with the ST- 500 power amp,which you can find for 8-900 used.250 watts and more power than you will need.The new prices are not that much more.If you have speakers that love power and a room to disperse a thundercloud of sound you are in business.I have matched this combo with some vintage JBL 150a's and the sound is butt kicking.These are the speakers that are one below the ones used in the old ad with the guy sitting in front of the speakers with his hair blown back.Those amps can easily feed that sort of mayhem with a sparkling intensity.

Construct · « **Reply #43 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 02:42 pm »

Class d: less parts, same cost as class ab. Why?

mjosef · « **Reply #44 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 03:05 pm »

Man's gotta eat...no free lunch.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #45 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 03:20 pm »

Quote from: Construct on 25 Jul 2010, 02:42 pm

Class d: less parts, same cost as class ab. Why?

I've thought the same for some time

If it isn't a unanimous decision in Class D's favor on sound quality alone over AB...at least it could claim some kind of 'value' status relative to AB. But, I haven't seen that in the actual marketplace.

John

lowtech · « **Reply #46 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 04:24 pm »

Regarding lower cost class-D amps not showing up in the marketplace - it's all about the numbers. There have been a few notable low-cost amps to show up in the marketplace, including the ones from now defunct "Flying Mole".

If you want to cut costs you need to DIY.

In the same way that the class-D OEM manufacturers (like B&O - http://tinyurl.com/2ean6rw and Hypex) have enabled numerous, small companies to bring amplifiers to the marketplace (and sell them for a "fair" profit), some of these same OEM's sell their amplifier modules directly to the buying public. For example, anyone can assemble a Hypex stereeo amplifier themself for a very fair price.

There are also a number of VAR's selling amplifier kits; 41Hz and Class D Audio to name two.

The diyAudio class-D forum is the best place to research what I've touched on.

muralman1 · « **Reply #47 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 05:06 pm »

Bemop, I am happy you have noticed how the H2O responds to incremental changes. You say you have one of the older models. I know a way you can make it better. When you open the top, you will notice one Theta bypass cap over the big blue caps. Remove that with a soldering iron. Buy four .1uF Sonicap Platinum caps, and solder these across each big cap. This is the cat's meow.

Also, as you can afford it, buy an Audio Note DAC. With just one change of the kit you can change it from pleasant to great.

lowtech · « **Reply #48 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 05:23 pm »

$299 non-DIY class-d amplifier. They may or may not be using Coldamp modules. Enjoy.

Don_S · « **Reply #49 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 05:44 pm »

lowtech, What is the amp designed for? The in/outs and IEC seem alien.

Why a fan on Class D?

Quote from: lowtech on 25 Jul 2010, 05:23 pm

$299 non-DIY class-d amplifier. They may or may not be using Coldamp modules. Enjoy.

lowtech · « **Reply #50 on:** 25 Jul 2010, 05:50 pm »

Neutrik Speakon outputs with both XLR and 1/4" inputs. The amp is targeted, but not limited to, the pro market. Most of these will live in a rack; thus the fan.

Construct · « **Reply #51 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 12:50 am »

Quote from: lowtech on 25 Jul 2010, 05:50 pm

Neutrik Speakon outputs with both XLR and 1/4" inputs. The amp is targeted, but not limited to, the pro market. Most of these will live in a rack; thus the fan.

Which brings back my unanswered question about crown. Crown made the macro reference at one point that wowed the critics. They have a variety of class d amps now. Assuming that I built proper cabling, wouldn't these $399 amps work for high fidelity? If not---why not?

jtwrace · « **Reply #52 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 12:55 am »

Quote from: Construct on 26 Jul 2010, 12:50 am

Which brings back my unanswered question about crown. Crown made the macro reference at one point that wowed the critics. They have a variety of class d amps now. Assuming that I built proper cabling, wouldn't these $399 amps work for high fidelity? If not---why not?

It all depends on what YOU consider high fidelity...

Construct · « **Reply #53 on:** 26 Jul 2010, 01:17 am »

Quote from: jtwrace on 26 Jul 2010, 12:55 am

It all depends on what YOU consider high fidelity...

That is a partial answer, and cryptically infers that the crown amps cannot reproduce a high fidelity signal. I give you a D for effort, but it's a start, so thanks.

59vovo · « **Reply #54 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 04:35 am »

The discontinued panasonic sa-xr45,55,57,70,700 are low cost class d. probably nothing available now that compares for the price.

Construct · « **Reply #55 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 04:55 am »

Quote from: 59vovo on 29 Jul 2010, 04:35 am

The discontinued panasonic sa-xr45,55,57,70,700 are low cost class d. probably nothing available now that compares for the price.

Kind of reminds me of the hey day of Sansui...when they offered these heavy duty dc amps. (late 70's early 80's?)

lowtech · « **Reply #56 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 05:21 am »

Quote from: Construct on 26 Jul 2010, 12:50 am

wouldn't these $399 amps work for high fidelity? If not---why not?

I'm afraid nobody who hasn't listened to one in their system is going to be able to answer that question for you. Why not buy one from a dealer with a good return policy and send it back if you don't like it? I have no reason to suspect the class-D Crown would sound poor given that the current crop of switching amplifiers that I've heard sound pretty good overall.

Construct · « **Reply #57 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 02:27 pm »

Quote from: lowtech on 29 Jul 2010, 05:21 am

I'm afraid nobody who hasn't listened to one in their system is going to be able to answer that question for you. Why not buy one from a dealer with a good return policy and send it back if you don't like it? I have no reason to suspect the class-D Crown would sound poor given that the current crop of switching amplifiers that I've heard sound pretty good overall.

Yeah, it's kinda why I was hoping for specific experience, not speculation. I remember the crown macro ref reviews. The press went nuts because it was a great thing with insane levels of sheer power. That was many years ago. It's logical to surmise that Crown knows how to make a high quality amp. I was curious if the technology has trickled down.

JimJ · « **Reply #58 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 02:45 pm »

Is this conversation strictly limited to Class D?

I've heard a Class D Audiosource amp (Tripath-based) that I was less than impressed with...however, a few Class H Arc Audio Minis in a friend's Audi were amazing

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #59 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 04:07 pm »

Quote from: Construct on 23 Jul 2010, 03:17 am

Ok simple question. Crown has class D stereo amps for $399. What would make them fall short?

Products like that Crown amplifier are really only designed to deliver a lot of power cheaply, and do so without blowing up or shutting down. Sound quality is pretty far down on the list of features.

How do I know this? Well, I haven't heard that particular Crown amplifier in the link, but everything in that pro audio price range that I've encountered sounds like shit to me. The guys in my band seem to enjoy it but they only respond to loud and louder. (I wear ear plugs now.)

That kind of gear is fine for its intended purpose, and you can make it sound OK for short periods of time (if your bandmates cooperate), but I would never use it for home music playback.

Construct,

Remember that other thread where you said "Folks really need to start with speakers, not gear. Too much self doubt and impulse choices influenced by others." This sort of find the best sounding megawatt-amplifier predicament is the reason why I don't think a person should pick speakers first and worry about gear later. I'm only bringing it up as a point of general discussion, becasue many of these threads relate to each other.

Just my friendly opinion.