amp and pre amp for my VR4SR MK2

TakeOne · « **on:** 18 Jul 2010, 08:24 pm »

Looking for new/ different set of amp and preamp for my VR4SR MK2.
The budget might be problematic – $5K up to $6K - so second hand from Audiogon might be most relevant.
Since I like to have the touch of tubes in my system I consider combo of SS power amp and Valve pre amp.
Here are some options I consider:
Modright 150 + 36.5
NuForce Ref-9 V3 SE monoblocs + EAR 868 or Cary Slp 98
Pass labs X350 (or X250) + Vac standard or EAR 868 or Cary slp 98
Another option is integrated like the KR V880 (can get a new one with my budget) or Vac Avatar
Will appreciate your thoughts based on your own experience.
Any other option based on self experience will be highly appreciate.
Thanks.

JackD201 · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Jul 2010, 03:19 am »

I like Modright and VS. Tubey but not mushy.

I'd also look at a VK-31SE and VK-250 combo from BAT.

Barry_NJ · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Jul 2010, 04:10 am »

I've heard mfsoa's VR4 speakers driven by his VAC pre and Cherry amplifier, and it was wonderful. You can look him up here for info on the various model specifics, as I don't recall them right now. I do remember sound that was full, rich, and detailed, with a great sound-stage and imaging.

TakeOne · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Jul 2010, 07:05 am »

thank you JackD201 and Barry_NJ

Did anyone here try to drive VR4SR with the EAR 8L6 Integrated Amplifier?

mfsoa · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Jul 2010, 01:43 pm »

TakeOne,

As Barry said, I've been using a VAC Standard MKII preamp with various amp models from the Digital Amplifier Company (DAC). (Usual disclaimer - I am friends with the guru at DAC (Tommy) so take my comments as you will).

On my VR4MKIs, this is an excellent combo, to my ears. The imaging of the DAC amps is fabulous, as is the bass that you get from ~400 watts of Class D. Treble is very clean yet not fatiguing, in my room and brain.

The DAC amp seems to really like the Pangea powercord - seems to be an extra half octave of bass compared to other cables I've tried, and I have made major room upgrades that elevate the sound to far beyond what Barry has heard

So if you are considering Class D technology (Tommy designs his own circuitry - these are not Ice or UcD modules stuffed in a box - and builds them in Pennsylvania) I would highly recommend seeking out DAC with any questions.

Since the DAC amps are so clean and fast (heard them vs. a Spectron, sorry don't know the model # or revision status of the Spectron, but the DAC amp was much faster and livelier), there are systems where they might not work, so if your room is very lively and your source is already on the lean side, the amps won't do anything to help. We heard a DAC amp on some VMPS speakers that were already extremely "treble-ey" w/ no instrumental body to them, and these speakers sounded better w/ a tube amp.

Near New Jersey? I'd love to demo for you! Good luck!

-Mike

spab · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 03:30 am »

Another possibility is to run tubes on top and ss on bottom – Albert actually encourages this. I own the VR4 modded to VR5/7 status – these are very comparable to the VR4 SR speakers. I run SAS Audio Labs 50 watt tube ultralinear monoblocs for the mid/high unit. For the bass module I use a Musical Design ss amp that I already owned. Albert says any decent high powered ss amp will do. You can pick up a decent used ss amp for not much money. My preamp is the SAS 11A tube unit. As for the SAS tube gear, it is roughly 3k for the pre and 3.5k for the monoblocs so about 6.5k. While I have not heard everything out there, I’ve heard enough stuff to say that the SAS gear will compete with anything out there cost no object. Steve is a very gifted designer and these pieces are nothing short of stellar. So, for roughly 6.5k you can get top notch amplification that will make the Von Schweikerts sound absolutely stunning. Additionally, SAS has a 30 day home trial – you don’t concur – you can return the gear and get your money back -- so really no risk. As for matching the levels between the tubes on top and the ss on bottom (my ss amp is 160watts) I simply use attenuators -- the type that plug directly into the component on one end while the ic plugs into the other end. There are a couple of companies that make these such as EVS – they’ve worked great – I can dial the bass level as I desire and the sound between the mid/high and bass is seamless. That’s my experience so I wanted to pass it along.

es347 · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 03:39 pm »

Hey Bernie....have you listened to any McIntosh gear??

spab · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 07:03 pm »

Gavin,
As you know, I've heard an all McIntosh setup with the VR5 Anniversaries -- and it was quite spectacular!

I wasn't trying to diss ss amplification when I said "any decent ss amp will do." I was simply referencing what Albert has said in terms of driving the bass module -- he prefers ss amplification because it controls the woofers better and he also said you don't need a mega-expensive ss amp to get the job done and achieve the same results.
BTW, as I mentioned above, I just had Steve switch my amps to ultra-linear mode from triode (he can set them up either way). They both sound great with the UL mode being a little more powerful --50 watts versus 25. I prefer the UL mode -- it sounds very similar to what I heard at your place.

es347 · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 07:10 pm »

Hey Bernie, I couldn't agree with you or Albert more regarding using a decent SS amp on the bass. The M/T amp is where you spend your money. Thanks for the kind words regarding my MAC/VSA system...and you haven't heard it since I added the Velodyne subs

mfsoa · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 07:20 pm »

I had a slightly different experience w/ SS amps on the bass of my VR4JRs-

My brother loaned me a giant 600 watt Carver amp (forget the model but it had Carver's signature on it) which I used to biamp, w/ tubes on the M/T.
I figured that the Carver was as good as I could get for the bass, heck it's only <200 hz.
But whan I switched in a Digital Amp Co amp I thought the bass tightened up considerably, while going lower.

So while a decent used SS amp will surely get you good sound, there is still room for improvement/difference with different amps.

Ain't that the pisser about this hobby?!

-Mike

msm_1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 01:00 am »

Hi

I am a big believer in "You get what you pay for" and a bigger believer in the value for the $.

Running my Rogue 99 ( 66 as backup ) with my Rogue 88 ( modded ) on the mid/highs and Specral DMA 200 running the bass is the best setup I've had to date, bar none. The Spectral runs at idle 1200 watts, but, it is well worth it in the sound it produces. Running the tubes in both Pre and mid/highs gives me the nice warmth that I love from the vr-4 Gen 1, and the Spectral provides lightning quick and crystal clear deep bass.

The Rogue puts out 60/channel @ 8 ohm and the Spectral runs pure CLASS A 200/channel @ 8 ohm

I do have a pair of 200's but the 4's totally disapear, using the 88 with one 200. I'm very happy with this setup and have had many people surprised at the total $ I've spent putting my system together, and, how vintage some of the pieces are ( original 4's, the 200's and a very early Koetsu Black that has limited hours on it, to name a few )

Keep an open mind on things, some cheaper or older pieces may surprise you

Mike

TakeOne · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 08:25 am »

Thank you so much guys!

Please note that since I live about 12 hours flight from the US I prefer to choose equipment that I can also check here. I also look for gear that can be converted to 220V-50KH. Unfortunately since there are no dealers here for some of the (Interesting) gear that you suggested, such as the Digital Amplifier Company (DAC) or SAS Audio Labs It will be impossible for me to listen and check this staff before making decisions. At this stage I consider KR V880 Integrated, Macintosh (tube pre SS power), Modwrigt (150 SS power , 36.5 pre), EAR SL6 Integrated. Rogue may also be a good option, so as Audio Research. Cary is also an option that I consider for the pre amp (I listen to SLP 98 and liked it).
Has anyone had the chance to compare some of these gear?

JackD201 · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 01:00 pm »

What country are you in?

TakeOne · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 05:35 pm »

Hi Jack,
Im in Israel.
I understand that you had the chance to listen to the VR4SR with set of Modwright and you liked it.
Can you kindly describe the nuture of this amp and pre amp and maybe compare to other Tubes that you familier with?
Thanks.

JackD201 · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 12:57 am »

Israel means you are 12 hours away from the Philippines. Oh well.

I had the 9.0 preamp on loan because my partner Keith, (where is that guy?) was looking for a new preamp. We auditioned it extensively with his DB-99SEs and a plethora of different amplifiers. Dan's sonic signature in my opinion is a good one. His sound is clear, clean, quick, solid with a touch of sweetness. In other words it has the resolution and harmonic density of tubes but not to the point where things get slow and over ripe albeit having enough warmth so as not to be mistaken for cool.

I have yet to hear the new power amps. The first pair was brought in recently by Modwright's new distributor and went directly to a customer. Feedback from that customer is that the amps are powerful and carry the same sonic signature as the preamps.

This overall signature matches well with your Mk2s in that it will give you wide latitude when it comes to musical genres.

Compared with the VK-31SE Superpack the Modright 9.0 had tighter bass. The BAT won on vocals being a touch more alluring but had less sparkle up top. The BATs are a bit darker overall.

A set up we did that was also very good (very,very, good) was anchored with ARC Ref 3 and ARC Ref 210 amps with SR Tiger Ebony Mk2s. Unfortunately this would be way out of the budget but come to think of it so would the 36.5, 150 combination.

I think your biggest problem at Audiogon would be the mains voltage. 99% are 110V.

All the Best,

Jack

Steve · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 03:35 pm »

Quote

I am a big believer in "You get what you pay for" and a bigger believer in the value for the $.

I agree. With fixed costs such as location, staff, supplies, certain parts, the particular design itself, appearance etc, the cost of components can be quite extravant. One has to overcome these high fixed costs before one begins making a profit.

Then the quality of the engineer/designer makes all the difference in the world. One can design using an overly complicated circuit that does not sound better, or may sound worse, than an "efficiently" designed circuit.

Anyway, still enjoying the Von's immensely. They do so much right. And looking forward to hearing the 33's soon.

Cheers.

es347 · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 08:02 pm »

..still looking forward to hearing those VR33s Steve?

Steve · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 09:25 pm »

Quote from: es347 on 30 Jul 2010, 08:02 pm

..still looking forward to hearing those VR33s Steve?

Nope, just heard them at your place.

Thanks for inviting Spab (St. Louis) and me over for a great day of listening, to both systems.

Absolutely wonderful 33s that have no business sounding that great at that price (but glad they are). The soundstage is absolutely wonderful with very nice depth; the musical qualities are very natural. It is almost as if there are no crossovers, which can cause an inferior sound. Albert did a fantastic job on these.

The 5s are fantastic. You did a wonderful job of placing them (and the electronics), which took alot of time, to get them just right.

Cheers.

es347 · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Jul 2010, 02:40 pm »

Thanks Steve. More to follow guys. Stay tuned.

parnlyp · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 03:26 pm »

CJ CT6 preamp
McCormack DNA 250 due to arrive next week
Sony Win 7 laptop running JR MC
Empirical Audio Offramp 3 with Superclock
Bryston BDA-1 dac
VSA Vr4 SR MKII