Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?

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Welborne

  • Jr. Member
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  • I love open baffle with 100db sensitivity!
Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« on: 18 Jul 2010, 10:56 am »
I am building a very efficiient horn loaded speaker system based on compression drivers+tractrix horn and open baffle woofer.

Wondering if anyone did have experience using Virtue amp with horns.

 :roll:

OzarkTom

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #1 on: 18 Jul 2010, 03:33 pm »
Duke of Audio Kinesis tried out the One.2 at the LSAF and was astounded. He used it on his Rhythm Prisms horned loudspeakers.

doorman

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #2 on: 18 Jul 2010, 04:38 pm »
I bought one of the first V-1's, and used it to good effect with my DIY single driver BLH's.
The "sub-out" is nice, as my speakers needed a little low end help., I've since gone back to a cathode-follower SE amp, but you won't be slumming at all by trying one!! (I thought the Virtue was even more satisfying with a tubed pre in the chain as well.)
Good Luck with your project!
Don

PSB Guy

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #3 on: 18 Jul 2010, 05:49 pm »
I am building a very efficiient horn loaded speaker system based on compression drivers+tractrix horn and open baffle woofer.

Wondering if anyone did have experience using Virtue amp with horns.

 :roll:
I've used Klipsch speakers (RB-83, briefly) in the past with good effect, especially with tubes in the audio chain (buffer in my case, but I guess a good tube pre would have the same effect).

antonio

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Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #4 on: 18 Jul 2010, 07:10 pm »
i used my sensation with a pair of my friend's klipsch F3.
the sound was fantastic.
the special detailed sound of sensation was all in evidence with a very presence of klipsch in high frequency.
the "competition" were vs his tube ampli.
sensation has a sound more clean than his tube ampli, and the high frequency are not sibilant but warm. classical guitar was perfect (you can hear the toutch of finger on chords) and femal voice  warm and natural.
i think that horn speaker like klipsch are right for sensation.
« Last Edit: 19 Jul 2010, 05:33 am by antonio »

al128

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Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #5 on: 21 Jul 2010, 05:15 pm »
Two.2 and Hornshoppe The Horn (rear loaded 4.5" Fullrangers (95+db?))

 :eyebrows:

while my two.2 isnt really all that broken in, preliminar casual listening nearly got me w00d  :thumb: :green:

let me put it this way ... extremely fast, punchy and dynamic (without bein pyrotechnical), very organic and liquid, detailed, transparent yet not fatigueing, and no need for a sub, either ...

a killer combo
cheers
al

Mariusz

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #6 on: 31 Jul 2010, 02:56 am »
Surprisingly good sound.
(horns used - BLH with Fostex-Planet-10hifi modified and Jordans based on Frugal-horn designs)

MAriusz :thumb:

Cheerwino

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #7 on: 2 Aug 2010, 03:12 pm »
 :thumb: on Virtue amp + Horn Shoppe Horns
My Virtue One has far more bottom end than you'd expect with the Horns. There's further improvement when fed by the Horn Shoppe Truth buffered preamp into the Virtue One--really amazing!



PSB Guy

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #8 on: 2 Aug 2010, 08:30 pm »
:thumb: on Virtue amp + Horn Shoppe Horns
My Virtue One has far more bottom end than you'd expect with the Horns. There's further improvement when fed by the Horn Shoppe Truth buffered preamp into the Virtue One--really amazing!
Do you use a sub with this combo?

Cornelis
« Last Edit: 3 Aug 2010, 01:18 am by PSB Guy »

Cheerwino

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #9 on: 2 Aug 2010, 11:49 pm »
Do you use a sub with this combo?

Sometimes. The sub out with the Virtue One doesn't supply ideal gain for these speakers in the stock setting due to the efficiency of the Horns, but it does add a little something. I think Seth hoped to address this mismatch for us Horn folks in future versions, but I'm not sure if it made it into production. Hope so. Higher efficiency speakers need more gain on the sub out to match up with their main outputs, so this is not a design problem with the Virtue, just somewhat of a pairing mismatch in this case. For most speakers, it's fine. (I know you know this PSB, I'm just sayin' for posterity's sake)

A riskier setup I sometimes use is to use an adapted version of Ed Schilling's Magic Cable and run out of the speaker outputs from the Virtue One WITHOUT CONNECTING THE GROUND. Sorry to shout, but I want to make sure people do not run another amp off the speaker outs or they will fry their Virtue (and maybe other stuff, too). This is true of all T-amps. But, if you don't attach the black ground, it should work, if you don't get an annoying hum. I don't so I use this, sometimes. It's risky and I can't endorse it for others. Still, it works and it rocks. But, it is in direct violation of dire warnings in the Virtue manual and surely voids your warranty and may leave you without ability to father offspring.

I also occasionally drive a car and read in dim light, so I'm somewhat of a risk taker.

PSB Guy

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #10 on: 3 Aug 2010, 01:17 am »
The Horn is definitely something I'd be interested in trying, but I've read conflicting things. The reason I ask if you're using a sub with them is that I've read everything from "you don't need one if they're positioned properly" to "the bass is good but boomy" to "it won't put out anything under 70 Hz". I don't think I ever attempt something like the Magic Cable, I wouldn't risk it. If I need to use a sub with the Horns, I'm afraid they're a dead end for me for space considerations. Bookshelf speakers and a sub I have room for; floorstanders and a sub, not so much. Maybe I'll ask Ed, see what he says...thanks for the info.

Cornelis

Cheerwino

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #11 on: 3 Aug 2010, 01:39 am »
The Horn is definitely something I'd be interested in trying, but I've read conflicting things. The reason I ask if you're using a sub with them is that I've read everything from "you don't need one if they're positioned properly" to "the bass is good but boomy" to "it won't put out anything under 70 Hz". I don't think I ever attempt something like the Magic Cable, I wouldn't risk it. If I need to use a sub with the Horns, I'm afraid they're a dead end for me for space considerations. Bookshelf speakers and a sub I have room for; floorstanders and a sub, not so much. Maybe I'll ask Ed, see what he says...thanks for the info.

Cornelis

It's just so room and equipment dependent with the Horns, I suppose. The Virtue One with 65w power supply was very nice but minimal bottom with the Horns and no sub. Virtue One with 130w ps is another story, more pronounced bottom and perfectly acceptable with no sub.

So, I can live without a sub with the Horns with the big power supply. Oh, another way I run a sub with the Virtue is to split the signal coming out of The Truth buffered preamp with one going to the Virtue One and the other to the sub amp. That's how I run my First Watt F1 at times.

Ed will let you try them and take them back if you don't like them.

al128

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Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #12 on: 3 Aug 2010, 09:51 pm »
The Horn is definitely something I'd be interested in trying, but I've read conflicting things. The reason I ask if you're using a sub with them is that I've read everything from "you don't need one if they're positioned properly" to "the bass is good but boomy" to "it won't put out anything under 70 Hz". I don't think I ever attempt something like the Magic Cable, I wouldn't risk it. If I need to use a sub with the Horns, I'm afraid they're a dead end for me for space considerations. Bookshelf speakers and a sub I have room for; floorstanders and a sub, not so much. Maybe I'll ask Ed, see what he says...thanks for the info.

Cornelis


i use the horns w/out sub ... and love them ...

no speaker (at any pricepoint!!!) i have heard draws a better and more convincing soundstage than those ... music is just "there" floating in the room, its not coming from the speakers ... also its just about the fastest and most dynamic speaker i remember (w/out being pyrotechnic, if you catch my drift).

The speaker sounds HUGE, dont let the 4.5" fool you (Magic Bus - the who live at leeds - it just sounds like you are standing in front of a 90.000w stadium pa set)

the horns are good to upper 40ish hz bass, but its a different type of bass ... its fast, nimble and articulate, but obv. it doesnt kick you in the chest like a 15" does ... it takes some getting used to missing body clues in the bass dpt...

talk to ed (he is a very good guy - he even called me international long distance to see if I am happy w/ them!!!) and see if he has a demo pair he could send you (the horns are notorious for long break in and sound pretty poor for the first couple of weeks) ... they do work extremely well with a two.2


limitations:

best for: jazz, voices, bossa, small or medium classic music, dynamic (uncompressed) 70ies pop (eagles, p.simon, j.baez, elton john) and rock (AC/DC sounds larger than life on the horns!)

good but not extremely so for: huge symphonic stuff and electronic (punchy-punchy type) music

... not the easiest speaker to place


point  in case: like ANY speaker they are a compromise ... but the music I mostly listen to (see "best for:") I dont think there is a better speaker out there

best of luck
al

PSB Guy

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #13 on: 4 Aug 2010, 01:43 am »

i use the horns w/out sub ... and love them ...

no speaker (at any pricepoint!!!) i have heard draws a better and more convincing soundstage than those ... music is just "there" floating in the room, its not coming from the speakers ... also its just about the fastest and most dynamic speaker i remember (w/out being pyrotechnic, if you catch my drift).

The speaker sounds HUGE, dont let the 4.5" fool you (Magic Bus - the who live at leeds - it just sounds like you are standing in front of a 90.000w stadium pa set)

the horns are good to upper 40ish hz bass, but its a different type of bass ... its fast, nimble and articulate, but obv. it doesnt kick you in the chest like a 15" does ... it takes some getting used to missing body clues in the bass dpt...

talk to ed (he is a very good guy - he even called me international long distance to see if I am happy w/ them!!!) and see if he has a demo pair he could send you (the horns are notorious for long break in and sound pretty poor for the first couple of weeks) ... they do work extremely well with a two.2


limitations:

best for: jazz, voices, bossa, small or medium classic music, dynamic (uncompressed) 70ies pop (eagles, p.simon, j.baez, elton john) and rock (AC/DC sounds larger than life on the horns!)

good but not extremely so for: huge symphonic stuff and electronic (punchy-punchy type) music

... not the easiest speaker to place


point  in case: like ANY speaker they are a compromise ... but the music I mostly listen to (see "best for:") I dont think there is a better speaker out there

best of luck
al
You may just have convinced me, and made a sale for Ed. Live At Leeds is one of my favourite albums, my favourite live album by far. I was really concerned that the Horns weren't well suited to anything so heavy, I'm relieved to hear that they are. All the music you say is best suited to them is the kind of stuff I listen to most of the time as well. Thanks for the info, Al!

Cornelis

al128

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  • Posts: 36
Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #14 on: 4 Aug 2010, 01:59 pm »
You may just have convinced me, and made a sale for Ed. Live At Leeds is one of my favourite albums, my favourite live album by far. I was really concerned that the Horns weren't well suited to anything so heavy, I'm relieved to hear that they are. All the music you say is best suited to them is the kind of stuff I listen to most of the time as well. Thanks for the info, Al!

Cornelis

cool, hope to see you on the forum over there ... (cheerwino is a regular, too) ...

and yep ... them horns aint an ol' ladies speaker ... they have quite some chesthair, if you understand me ...  :green:

check your pm

cheers
al

Folsom

Re: Virtue amp with horn speaker, anyone?
« Reply #15 on: 5 Aug 2010, 06:30 am »

limitations:

best for: jazz, voices, bossa, small or medium classic music, dynamic (uncompressed) 70ies pop (eagles, p.simon, j.baez, elton john) and rock (AC/DC sounds larger than life on the horns!)

good but not extremely so for: huge symphonic stuff and electronic (punchy-punchy type) music


Sorry but so far my Horns with the 126EN new driver have not been lacking anything that my last OB coaxials had in the sense of playability. I think the bigger problem is there is so little justice in good recording and mastering of too much music. There are electronic records that suck and require a subwoofer to get the intention they have...  I also find for as many good music cds of classical things there are ones that just fall short. I know because I have been checking them out like a mad man from my library lately.