[macrojack]

So what is he, maybe 25 years old with some semblance of a high school education? This hoopla for which he is being blamed was no doubt structured around him by agent profiteers and NBA marketers. And how is this stupid sham about which team he will choose to play for any different than the sham circus built around who will be the first draft pick. I see the biggest difference in who is getting to make the choice, labor or capital.
When the owners are choosing their livestock we all think that's fine but if the livestock get all uppity and try making their own call we criticize and berate them.
LeBron served his time in Cleveland and now he wants to get away from his apparently deranged owner and strut his stuff in a party town. I just hope he stays out of trouble because I'm sure that a guy with his naivete, wealth and stature will attract many a smooth operator in a place like Miami.

[jackman]

So what is he, maybe 25 years old with some semblance of a high school education? This hoopla for which he is being blamed was no doubt structured around him by agent profiteers and NBA marketers. And how is this stupid sham about which team he will choose to play for any different than the sham circus built around who will be the first draft pick. I see the biggest difference in who is getting to make the choice, labor or capital.
When the owners are choosing their livestock we all think that's fine but if the livestock get all uppity and try making their own call we criticize and berate them.
LeBron served his time in Cleveland and now he wants to get away from his apparently deranged owner and strut his stuff in a party town. I just hope he stays out of trouble because I'm sure that a guy with his naivete, wealth and stature will attract many a smooth operator in a place like Miami.

Great logic.      I guess Lebron is incapable of making his own decisions and should not be held accountable for his actions.  The livestock comment is laughable and totally misses the point.  No-one is saying Lebron should be chained to Cleveland for life.  He had every right to change teams and any right minded person understands this.  People are upset at him because of the way he did it.  That ESPN show "The Decision" was totally disrespectful to the people in Cleveland and they (and their owner) had every right to voice their displeasure.  Why is that so difficult for you to understand?   

Also, I like the fact that the Cleveland owner spoke out against James in the letter he posted on his site.  It's refreshing to see someone actually speak his mind, versus the usual watered down, politically correct, PR Department generated dreck.  The owner spoke his heart and said what most of the fans were thinking.  If James had any class, he would have made the change without acting like a classless, self-promoting, fool.  What can you expect from a guy whose mother banged at least one player from his former team (Delante West)?

When I hear James say he left Cleveland because he "wanted a ring", it makes me laugh.  If he really wanted a ring, maybe he should have shown up for the Boston series last year.  The Cavs team had the best record in the regular season and every expert expected them to contend for a title.  They may have contended if "King" James hadn't played like "Queen" James.

Peace,

J

[zybar]

Also, I like the fact that the Cleveland owner spoke out against James in the letter he posted on his site.  It's refreshing to see someone actually speak his mind, versus the usual watered down, politically correct, PR Department generated dreck.  The owner spoke his heart and said what most of the fans were thinking.  If James had any class, he would have made the change without acting like a classless, self-promoting, fool.  What can you expect from a guy whose mother banged at least one player from his former team (Delante West)?

When I hear James say he left Cleveland because he "wanted a ring", it makes me laugh.  If he really wanted a ring, maybe he should have shown up for the Boston series last year.  The Cavs team had the best record in the regular season and every expert expected them to contend for a title.  They may have contended if "King" James hadn't played like "Queen" James.

Peace,

J

Jackman,

Whole you might find the temper tantrum that Gilbert threw refreshing (I definitely don't), it was actually a very silly thing to do business wise.  That type of outburst will have players thinking twice before going to Cleveland and signing a contract.  Nobody wants to see an owner behave in this manner.  Fans can overreact (like burning his jersey) and be upset, but an owner has a higher standard that he/she needs to be held to - period.  Many of Gilbert's comments were out of line, not factually based (i.e. emotional garbage), and just plain silly.  He came across a scorned teenage lover, not as a well established and respected businessman.  While I certainly don't condone Lebron's method of announcing his change, I think Gilbert came across just as bad, if not worse.

As for Lebron choosing to go to Miami, why such animosity?  Miami has more talent and a better chance to win than Cleveland or almost any of the other possible teams that could afford Lebron - how is that laughable?  What would have been laughable was if Lebron had gone to anyplace other than Chicago or Miami and claimed it was about winning championships.  While Lebron didn't have his best game this past playoffs, there simply wasn't enough talent on the Cleveland team and due to their current contracts and structure, it wasn't going to get much better any time soon. 

George   

[PeteG]

I agree, Gilbert hurt his own team by his actions. What I don’t understand about him is he said Cleveland will have a championship without James, well why the hell didn’t you put some decent players around James for the last 6yrs and you would’ve had one  .   

[jackman]

Jackman,

Whole you might find the temper tantrum that Gilbert threw refreshing (I definitely don't), it was actually a very silly thing to do business wise.  That type of outburst will have players thinking twice before going to Cleveland and signing a contract.  Nobody wants to see an owner behave in this manner.  Fans can overreact (like burning his jersey) and be upset, but an owner has a higher standard that he/she needs to be held to - period.  Many of Gilbert's comments were out of line, not factually based (i.e. emotional garbage), and just plain silly.  He came across a scorned teenage lover, not as a well established and respected businessman.  While I certainly don't condone Lebron's method of announcing his change, I think Gilbert came across just as bad, if not worse.

As for Lebron choosing to go to Miami, why such animosity?  Miami has more talent and a better chance to win than Cleveland or almost any of the other possible teams that could afford Lebron - how is that laughable?  What would have been laughable was if Lebron had gone to anyplace other than Chicago or Miami and claimed it was about winning championships.  While Lebron didn't have his best game this past playoffs, there simply wasn't enough talent on the Cleveland team and due to their current contracts and structure, it wasn't going to get much better any time soon. 

George

George,

I have no problem with Lebron choosing to leave Cleveland and have stated several times, the only problem I have is the way he chose to make his announcement.  It was classless, self centered and did not reflect well on his image.   My comments were in reference to the way he conducted himself over the past couple weeks, culminating in his final "Decision" on ESPN.  That was low-life, ghetto, and completely unnecessary.  I think the Cav's owner, Gilbert, was responding to that last part (the circus Lebron put on) not the fact that Lebron left the team.  He also said what everyone else was thinking in reference to Lebron's performance in last year's playoff series.  Lebron the "King" gave up on his team in the playoffs, when his leadership and contribution were most needed.  Watch the games and tell me if you disagree.  Also, players will sign with Cleveland as long as the money is good.  it's interesting that Mark Cuban agreed with Gilbert's comments. I wonder if this means players won't want to cash any of Cuban's checks in the future. 

Lebron is going to continue to get headlines in Miami and time will tell if this was the right decision.  We don't need time to tell us if his method of announcing was a good idea.  Outside of Miami, I don't know anyone who thinks his method of announcing was in good taste.  He showed his true colors and I think Lebron is a low-class scumbag.  Just my opinion.  I hope he never wins anything and goes down as a selfish bust, with great talent.  Just my opinion.

J

[jermmd]

I don't really feel that strongly about the way Lebron announced his choice. Afterall, that's show business.

I'm glad he didn't go to Chicago and I wish The Knicks had gotten him but I can't blame him for going to Miami,. That team is going to be awesome next year and who knows what his motivations are. Maybe he just wanted to play with his buddies from the olympic team. They're definitely the team to beat. In my opinion, he really is that good. He plays at the Michael Jordan/Kobe level IMHO and he gives 100% whenever I watch (not that often).

[konut]

I usually don't respond to sports threads, but this particular situation is close to my heart. I grew up in Cleveland Ohio. As a fan of both the Indians and Browns, I closely followed the games during the seasons of my youth. The Browns had some great teams and I was lucky enough to see Jim Brown play live in the old Municipal Stadium. The Indians were perennial losers but I still went to games and eventually got a Rocky Colavito mitt. Then then he was traded to the Tigers. I was heartbroken! That was the beginning of my disaffection with professional sports. As the money got bigger, and spectical more commercial, I lost enthusiasm for placing any emotional energy into the proceedings. Of course I still followed what the teams did because I always thought Cleveland deserved a championship team to soften its economic hardships that its seen through the years.
       With LeBron I thought that here's a guy who "gets it". A local Cleveland guy who understands what the region is going through. Maybe that's the way he started out. He has been poorly advised, he is immature, and he has probably lied to the Cavs owner, making the response totally understandable. He let down the fans that have followed him the longest. How much money does a guy need to make? For a little warm weather he has turned his back on his home. First Colavito, then  Modell, now this. Cleveland just can't catch a break.

[macrojack]

None of us know what has gone on behind the scenes in Cleveland over the last few years but the recent behavior of the guy who held all the cards suggests that there was certainly more than meets the eye. None of us are equipped to judge based on what we hear from the shock jock sports reporters. They are paid to whip up as much speculative controversy as they can muster.

[geezer]

Having no interest in basketball, I didn't watch Lebron's Spectacular, which, I understand, was intended to let everyone know where he'll play. But I am curious about one thing: Would someone please tell me, after his announcement, what did he do with the other 59 minutes?

I don't care where he goes, but I am sorry for the Cleveland fans who have taken this so very hard.

[jackman]

None of us know what has gone on behind the scenes in Cleveland over the last few years but the recent behavior of the guy who held all the cards suggests that there was certainly more than meets the eye. None of us are equipped to judge based on what we hear from the shock jock sports reporters. They are paid to whip up as much speculative controversy as they can muster.

Let's examine the facts that we DO know.  Lebron ultimately decided to do the "Decision" ESPN show after deciding to let teams from around the league pitch him on why he should "take his talents" (as the "King" so eloquently put it) to their respective city.  You can speculate that it was his agent or his handlers but he ultimately made the decision to make a mockery out of this process.  This decision and the way he handled himself over the past week are the primary reasons everyone now realizes that Lebron is a cowardly, self-centered, rat. 

Other players have left Cleveland for more money or fame but this was different.  King James was arguably the most famous person to ever wear a Cleveland uniform (sorry Jim Brown fans) and he was a local guy.  Cleveland finally got a home-grown talent who was a superstar from the minute he stepped on to the court.  They worshipped him.  The team even hired all of his friends and treated him like a god.  I mean a GOD.  He had every right to go to another team but to rub it in Cleveland's face the way he did was wrong.  The owner was 100% justified in his comments. 

If there is such a thing as Karma, James will never have the honor of wearing a championship ring.  I look forward to watching every Heat game next year...so I can root for the other team. 

I agree with this article:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/418839-does-espn-have-an-agenda

[launche]

That article is one of the most stupid pieces of garbage I've ever read.  Please let's stop trying to find garbage articles by lord knows who on the internet just jumping on the poor Cleveland I hate Lebron bus.

First of all no city deserves a championship, let's get that correct.  Would it be nice given certain situations yes.
I feel for the Cleveland fans but I have no sympathy, zero, zilch for the CAV's organization.  These teams make these decisions all day long concerning players.  The average player gets 2 maybe 3 times in his career to make such a decision and every other day they are at the mercy of the teams.  Ilgauskas played his whole career with the CAVs and they had no issue trading him away to try to get better.  Only a loop hole allowed him to be able to re-sign.  Are the CAVs self to be despised for that after his 13 or 15 yrs of loyalty?  Let's see how they handle him, if they desire to have him retire a CAV. 

Lebron is the face of the NBA and the teams are more anonymous so we may not care about their dirty deeds.  But being able to attach a name and face sure helps a lot.  The CAV's owner got his feelings hurt.  He kissed up to Lebron to an excessive degree for the benefits.  You have limited roster flexibility, you fire the coach and the GM and basically show you have little direction and you're surprised he left?  Bottom line is there were banking on home town sentiment being enough to make him stay. I guess he was able to detach his emotions from the situation enough to act as if he had no attachments.  Probably the only way to make a clear decision and the only reason I can see him pulling the TV marketing stunt.

...cowardly, self-centered, rat... that says it all.  I think if we really thought for even 2 more seconds, those things probably don't really apply as much as one would like.  I guess when you don't like somebody, you look for any reason to like them even less.  Those kinds of words, the time and energy should be reserved for those people who have wronged one personally.  Take all of that passion and help an old lady with the grocery bags or volunteer with a local charity or something.  Life's too short to be so pissed at someone you don't even know. 

Let me ask you this question:  Would you be reacting the same way if the CAVs had a press conference saying they traded Lebron for Wade, Bosh and a future first round draft pick?  Would they be cowardly, classless, self-centered, rat scumbags?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[rklein]

Below is one of the best(if not the best) article yet on this subject (from Yahoo sports).  Adrian Wojnarowski, who is the author makes quite a few poignant remarks concerning James, Gilbert, Jame's "posse", etc.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjcCSkDvGMr8NnnrzTRNTni8vLYF?slug=aw-lebrondecision070910

Randy

[jackman]

Below is one of the best(if not the best) article yet on this subject (from Yahoo sports).  Adrian Wojnarowski, who is the author makes quite a few poignant remarks concerning James, Gilbert, Jame's "posse", etc.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjcCSkDvGMr8NnnrzTRNTni8vLYF?slug=aw-lebrondecision070910

Randy

I pretty much agree with everything in the article.   People are not as mad about what James did as they are about the way he did it.  He showed his true colors and everyone who doesn't live in Miami (or cheer for the Heat) understands what I'm talking about. 

I don't know if I agree with all of the article's criticism of Gilbert's coddling of James and his "posse".  There is no doubt Gilbert treated James like the spoiled child that he is, but it's no different than the way anyone else treated James.  He is a spoiled little baby and insists on getting his way.  If Gilbert stood up to James (instead of totally bending over for to the "King" and his friends), people would probably blame Gilbert for nobeing too rough on James and not treating him with the respect his superstar status commands. 

James is a guy who was annointed the next savior of the league, by ESPN, long before he ever accomplished anything.  He put up big numbers but always caved during big games in the playoffs.  Maybe he's the anti-Jeter or anti-Jordan.   Jordan and Jeter always came up big during the biggest games.  Lebron is like the bully who can only beat up a guy when too of his friends are holding him down.  Some king.



Cheers,

Jman

[zybar]

James is a guy who was annointed the next savior of the league, by ESPN, long before he ever accomplished anything.  He put up big numbers but always caved during big games in the playoffs.  Maybe he's the anti-Jeter or anti-Jordan.   Jordan and Jeter always came up big during the biggest games.  Lebron is like the bully who can only beat up a guy when too of his friends are holding him down.  Some king.

Cheers,

Jman

Jackman,

I won't try to to change your mind about how James behaved, but your statement that James "caved during big games in the playoffs" simply isn't based on the facts.  While James had a few games in which he didn't play as well as he normally does this past post season, his track record over his full time with Cleveland clearly shows he is a clutch player and that he can and did carry his team.

Again, if the bar is Jordan, everybody else fails in that comparison.

George

[jackman]

Jackman,

I won't try to to change your mind about how James behaved, but your statement that James "caved during big games in the playoffs" simply isn't based on the facts.  While James had a few games in which he didn't play as well as he normally does this past post season, his track record over his full time with Cleveland clearly shows he is a clutch player and that he can and did carry his team.

Again, if the bar is Jordan, everybody else fails in that comparison.

George

Okay, let's use Kobe or Jeter as an example.  Larry Bird never caved or gave up like Lebron did last year. That's because guys like Bird, Jeter, and Kobe are big game players.  Look at how Lebron caved in the Boston series this year.  Tell me he didn't choke or give up on his team. He was pathetic and then made pathetic excuses after the series (he said he "spoiled" the Cleveland fans with his great play over the years). 

Lebron's physical talent cannot be denied but he's no Jeter or Kobe.  He's probably relieved to have Wade on the team so he doesn't have to take the big shots.  Wade should take over as the King and Lebron can be his queen.  Queen James!   

The reason I compare him to Jordan is because he was supposed to be the next Jordan.  He's bigger than Jordan, stronger than Jordan, and at his age he has more physical talent than MJ but he lacks Jordan's killer instinct.  Lebron is soft and doesn't deserve the fame he has achieved.  He was ordained the "King" before he ever earned the crown.  Maybe that's how the game is today.  I guess I'm just old-school.   

Cheers,

Jack

[Tyson]

Actually, the criticism of both Jordan and Kobe early in their careers was that they were flashy, non-team players, who did not have the ability to "win the big games".  Sound familiar?  If James goes on to win some championships, he can then be considered one of the "greats", and not before.

Not that I give a rat's @ss either way, because threads like this remind me why I'm glad I gave up watching all sports about 15 years ago.  I just can't be bothered with all this crap anymore (this lone post notwithstanding).

[dflee]

Unlike James, neither Kobe or Micheal went around touting off.
I'll say that James has great talent in the game of basketball, but unlike the other two, he does not elevate the play of others around him. He doesn't have that ability.
I've already had enough of "Let Me Tell You Bout My Best Friends". I look forward to the honeymoon ending and the season getting going to see who of the "Best friends" start to blame the other when they do lose a game or better yet the playoffs.

Better justify touting - rather than thank the fans for seven years of support, James declares how lucky Cleveland was for being able to watch him. Give me a break.

Don

[launche]

Since when did Kobe become Mr. Clean?  Even Michael.  People have short memories I guess, well that bodes well for Lebron.  IMO unless someone is a die hard Cleveland fan they need to get over it and move on with life. 

All of this Jordan crap is just that, crap.  I don't recall Lebron ever saying he is the next Jordan, that's all media hype.  Isn't every good guard the next Jordan. If anything Lebron resembles Magic and now maybe he'll play more that way.  Now I can't recall but I'd like to go back and look at the Lakers-Pistons series a few years ago and observe Kobe.  Kobe shot 6 for 24 this past game seven.  Gasol and Artest won that game.  Give Lebron Gasol, Artest, Odom, Bynum and Fisher and I'd bet money Lebron wins a championship.  Jordan, Bird and Magic likely never had to make the choice Lebron or some other guys have to make now.  If I recall all those guys were locked up tight with their contracts and had to stay put. So it's easy to say they would have never done something when they never had the chance too.  But stupid people fall for that kind of rationale.  I mean Magic signed a 25 yr $25 million dollar contract so what decision did he have to make?  Bird, Jordan... all these guys were locked up for 7,8 yrs at a time.  Where were they going, they had no choices.

Please don't use Jeter, really, the one player in all of sports who has the most competitive advantage of anyone.  The Yankee's spend what they want to get what they want to surround him with chances to win.  Jeter is a good player but all he really has to do is show up to work everyday and management will surround him with more than enough talent to succeed.  Please don't ever mention Jeter to prove a point of greatness.  Also, let me point out that some people are just boring or simple and by their very nature they may not find themselves in certain situations. 

Again I will ask what has Kobe won without 7 footers surrounding him.  For some reason people tend to act as if Pau Gasol is some bum.  Gasol is the most skilled big man in the game.  Again, give Lebron, Wade, Durant etc... practically 3 seven footers in Gasol, Bynum and Odom and see if they are not in the same winning position.  What has Kobe won without a lot of talent around him?  When he didn't have it he was crying and talking about leaving LA as well.  Then out of nowhere he's given Pau Gasol... hmmm and now he's winning rings.  Pau Gasol is the reason Kobe is winning rings now, It's Pau Gasol, he's that good.  The media doesn't give this guy credit to try to make it appear as if it's the Kobe show.  Just let someone write that Pau Gasol is leaving for Spain and I will bet Kobe damn near has a heart attack. Put Gasol with Durant next year and I will bet they beat the Lakers.  Kobe is the perfect example of winning curing all.  If Lebron wins some rings most people will just take him for a winner.

What I have observed is a bunch of yo-yo's in the media (half of which are just internet blog bums I imagine) writing all kind of stupid pointless retread articles to get some hits.  Most of the stuff makes little sense or is so short sided you must question their intellect or objective reporting.  They aren't reporting facts just opinions and personal feelings.  More of the "me too crowd".  I've read more garbage articles lately then I have in a year or two.

Lebron messed up and didn't do things with style and grace but really is that a crime?  Go find him and say Lebron you acted like a real a-hole and let's move on.  We live and learn, may be he'll be a better man for it all. But some want to freeze his life at 25 and stone him forever for making a poor decision and probably hurt himself more than anyone else.
He is pretty much at the halfway point in his career.  Can you imagine people trying to define your life by what you did and where you are at age 30. 
 

[jackman]

Since when did Kobe become Mr. Clean?  Even Michael.  People have short memories I guess, well that bodes well for Lebron.  IMO unless someone is a die hard Cleveland fan they need to get over it and move on with life. 

All of this Jordan crap is just that, crap.  I don't recall Lebron ever saying he is the next Jordan, that's all media hype.  Isn't every good guard the next Jordan. If anything Lebron resembles Magic and now maybe he'll play more that way.  Now I can't recall but I'd like to go back and look at the Lakers-Pistons series a few years ago and observe Kobe.  Kobe shot 6 for 24 this past game seven.  Gasol and Artest won that game.  Give Lebron Gasol, Artest, Odom, Bynum and Fisher and I'd bet money Lebron wins a championship.  Jordan, Bird and Magic likely never had to make the choice Lebron or some other guys have to make now.  If I recall all those guys were locked up tight with their contracts and had to stay put. So it's easy to say they would have never done something when they never had the chance too.  But stupid people fall for that kind of rationale.  I mean Magic signed a 25 yr $25 million dollar contract so what decision did he have to make?  Bird, Jordan... all these guys were locked up for 7,8 yrs at a time.  Where were they going, they had no choices.

Please don't use Jeter, really, the one player in all of sports who has the most competitive advantage of anyone.  The Yankee's spend what they want to get what they want to surround him with chances to win.  Jeter is a good player but all he really has to do is show up to work everyday and management will surround him with more than enough talent to succeed.  Please don't ever mention Jeter to prove a point of greatness.  Also, let me point out that some people are just boring or simple and by their very nature they may not find themselves in certain situations. 

Again I will ask what has Kobe won without 7 footers surrounding him.  For some reason people tend to act as if Pau Gasol is some bum.  Gasol is the most skilled big man in the game.  Again, give Lebron, Wade, Durant etc... practically 3 seven footers in Gasol, Bynum and Odom and see if they are not in the same winning position.  What has Kobe won without a lot of talent around him?  When he didn't have it he was crying and talking about leaving LA as well.  Then out of nowhere he's given Pau Gasol... hmmm and now he's winning rings.  Pau Gasol is the reason Kobe is winning rings now, It's Pau Gasol, he's that good.  The media doesn't give this guy credit to try to make it appear as if it's the Kobe show.  Just let someone write that Pau Gasol is leaving for Spain and I will bet Kobe damn near has a heart attack. Put Gasol with Durant next year and I will bet they beat the Lakers.  Kobe is the perfect example of winning curing all.  If Lebron wins some rings most people will just take him for a winner.

What I have observed is a bunch of yo-yo's in the media (half of which are just internet blog bums I imagine) writing all kind of stupid pointless retread articles to get some hits.  Most of the stuff makes little sense or is so short sided you must question their intellect or objective reporting.  They aren't reporting facts just opinions and personal feelings.  More of the "me too crowd".  I've read more garbage articles lately then I have in a year or two.

Lebron messed up and didn't do things with style and grace but really is that a crime?  Go find him and say Lebron you acted like a real a-hole and let's move on.  We live and learn, may be he'll be a better man for it all. But some want to freeze his life at 25 and stone him forever for making a poor decision and probably hurt himself more than anyone else.
He is pretty much at the halfway point in his career.  Can you imagine people trying to define your life by what you did and where you are at age 30.

Hey, I never said Michael and Kobe were perfect, they just never did anything publicly as stupid and classless as James did last week.  Seeing him on that stage with the ESPN crew for the "Decision" tarnished his image very badly.  It's not just internet types writing about it, every newspaper in America (outside of Miami of course) pretty much stated the same thing.  Classless.

Comparing him to Jordan, Kobe and Jeter is a fair comparison because all of these guys stepped up bigtime in biggest games.  They never quit on their teams as "The King" did last season in the final playoff series.  Kobe was severely injured during the last series with a bad thumb that may never heal.  Don't tell me you are comparing this to Lebron's mystery elbow "injury". 

All of this Jordan crap is just that, crap.  I don't recall Lebron ever saying he is the next Jordan, that's all media hype.  Isn't every good guard the next Jordan. If anything Lebron resembles Magic and now maybe he'll play more that way.

Come on, are you saying Lebron doesn't fuel the flames of media hype?  Do you think the ESPN special was just an accident?  It's all part of his game.  He's more concerned about the hype than he is about winning titles.  Going to Miami was just a chance to play in front of a bigger spotlight with big name stars.  More hype. 

We will see how this experiment goes.  I could see these three fighting about who is getting the ball more often or pointing fingers when things start going bad.  Lebron was shielded in Cleveland, a big fish in a small pond.  I suspect we'll see the real Lebron in Miami.  It might actually work out because he won't have to worry about folding in big playoff games because he's got Wade and Bosh.  I just hope none of those guys gets too acquainted with Lebron's mom...

[macrojack]

As long as we are doing character assessment based on speculation, does anyone find Jackman credible? I don't. He captures half the story and shouts it incessantly until everyone else, no matter how measured and rational, just gives up and goes away. This is not really the essence of discussion and, therefore, must be considered inappropriate forum behavior. He certainly crapped all over the Toyota Recall thread.