[srb]

However this is not a WASAPI issue IMHO - it is a driver issue.

I'm sure you're probably right.  My question wasn't addressing the problem you were having with the W4S DAC, I was just wondering if in fact I was actually utilizing the selected WASAPI driver under Vista 64 bit, as your previous comment led me to believe there was some kind of problem with WASAPI and 64 bit Windows OS.
 
Steve

[Jon L]

With all due respect my 30 years professional IT experience says otherwse.  I did not reach this conclusion lightly.  The drivers crashed - simple as that.  The drivers crashed not only in J Jiver running uder Windows 7 but in Itunes running under the mac os.  And that was playing back regular 44.1 16 bit - nothing fancy.  In fact when it crashed in Itunes the guy whose machine it crashed on did a dump verifying it was the driver and said he would send the dump to WFS - I dont know if he got around to it.  We were hopeful it would work under windows but didn't have a windows machine to check it out on.  It didn't work.

...what worried me was that fact 24 bit did not work and what horrofied me was the fact 44.1 16 bit failed under both Windows 7 and the mac os.

Done that - virtually no load.

Correct it shouldn't - but it does on both windows and mac. 

No worries.  Your recent post has tons more relevant information than earlier, i.e. 16/44.1 crashing, low CPU load, etc, for us to make some informed guesses. 

Believe me when I say I sympathize with your plight.  I have been doing PC audio for many, many years, before most audiophlles started getting interested.  I've had my share of wanting to shoot my computer 

By the way, which Audio GD DAC are you listening to, Ref 1 or ? 

[ted_b]

Just wanted to stick up for EJ and say I've been reading some good reviews (using USB) on this Wyred4Sound DAC2 (I expected good things; his $2k STP SE preamp outperforms some $10k preamps).  This is from Computer Audiophile today:

Author: DanG
Title: Finally!

Well, I have my unit back from W4S. There was nothing wrong with the unit I sent in, the problem was on my end. In my setup I'm using the unbalanced and balanced outputs on the DAC2 simultaneously. Unbalanced to drive a power amp directly, balanced to drive a Behringer DCX2496 which feeds an amp to drive the LF drivers of my speakers. The problem was with a mis-wired XLR cable, which caused the entire right channel to short out. FYI, the unbalanced connectors are hardwired to the balanced outputs, so any fault in one is reflected in the other, hence the entire right channel went silent because of the mis-wiring fault in the XLR cable. The DAC2 withstood driving this
(almost) short circuit for days without ill effects, besides no sound, so I will say that this thing is robust! Final judgment, my fault for incomplete troubleshooting. EJ called me to discuss the possible issues, and was very helpful and understanding. I will rate the W4S customer service a solid A.
Very responsive. EJ said he opened up my unit and did a visual inspection of every solder joint that could possibly be a culprit for an intermittent problem (which I ended up not having). He also updated the firmware while the unit was in the shop. After all this he shipped the unit back via overnight service!

Now I have the unit back up and running and installed/integrated into my system. As far as a review goes, I am probably not very good at this stuff, but my impressions are of relaxed and well defined sound that s very compelling. My previous DAC was a Lucid DA9624 (a mostly pro unit, now discontinued), and I was generally satisfied with its' sound, until I got this new setup to show me what else is possible. Previously I ran the Lucid's output into a Meridian 502 balanced preamp which I have since sold. Now the W4S DAC2 is my DAC and control component. I have my Sonos and Oppo DV-980H digital outputs as spdif inputs 1 & 2, my Kramer FC-24 HDMI audio de-embedder in Toslink input 1 and my PC (Win 7, J River MC) connected via USB. I used most of the advice Chris gave for configuring the PC/Win7 and JRMC with the exception that I'm using the W4S driver rather than ASIO. I am getting sample rates that match the source on the DAC2 display, so I think everything's working as it should. I'm using an active USB-2 extender to get the USB signal from my server PC (at the back of the room) to the DAC2 (at the front of the room).

I can tell you this, the music played through the JRMC/USB route sounds excellent to me. Very relaxed and detailed, especially with higher-rez material. Listening to Brian Bromberg's "Jaco" and Beatles LOVE DVD-A tracks, ripped via DVD-A Explorer at 24/96 sound superb! I've never had so much fun and satisfaction listening to these recordings as I have through this new setup. Music is very easy and compelling to listen to when the source music is good. The emotion of music played on this new setup with the W4S is very accessible. I don't have a lot of audiophile terminology, but where music matters most to me, in the emotion, this new DAC now transmits musical emotion as directly as listening to a good LP. That's high praise in my book.
Now that I've figured out my initial problems, the DAC2 is working flawlessly. I still have a bit more setup to do, like setting the digital attenuation ranges, but even with the default settings this thing is taking me to new sound/pleasure places.

DanG

[bhobba]

By the way, which Audio GD DAC are you listening to, Ref 1 or ?

Audio GD Compass.  Its a model they have discontinued but evidently it was their base model even below the Sparrow and Fun which are their current base grade models.
 
Yea I too have wanted many times to smash my computer.  They can be so maddening.  On this issue sure I understand EJ's position - so many variables involved makes it hard from his end as well.  That said this was a bog standard install of J River on a standard platform used for computer audio - Windows 64 bit on a brand spanking new I3 notebook. More than enough grunt and a common playback program highly recommended by Chris at Computer Audiophile.  It would seem the type of thing you would have zero problems with - but evidently not.  And failing in Itunes on a mac - since that seems to be the platform I hear most audiophiles talk about - well you would think problems with that would have been well and truly sorted out.

Thanks
Bill

[rayooo]

   The WFS had a slight sibilance control issue totally lacking in the 1704.

My concern is this sibilance issue. 'no doubt the Computer -> DAC interconnect issues will get resolved.

For the first time ever, I've ordered a product sight unseen, more importantly sound unseen.
I don't have the DAC-2 yet and now I'm very concerned about this possible sibilance. This would drive me nuts.

I'm tempted to cancel my order to await more reports on how the thing actually sounds.

suggestions would be greatly appreciated from anyone!

[highfilter]

My concern is this sibilance issue. 'no doubt the Computer -> DAC interconnect issues will get resolved.

For the first time ever, I've ordered a product sight unseen, more importantly sound unseen.
I don't have the DAC-2 yet and now I'm very concerned about this possible sibilance. This would drive me nuts.

I'm tempted to cancel my order to await more reports on how the thing actually sounds.

suggestions would be greatly appreciated from anyone!

Just to put in my 2 cents... I also bought the W4S DAC-2 unseen and unheard. I am using it with a Logitech Touch as a source, connected via a Black Cat Veloce cable. It is probably up there with the biggest improvement in my system and I have never enjoyed music as much as I do now. I'll be keeping it. 

My previous DAC that I was using was the DAC inside of my Marantz 7002 receiver, so I don't have a huge list of DACs to compare the DAC-2 with, but I have no noticeable sibilance issues or strain when listening to music, to my hears. Note, I am also using a Pangea power cord with the DAC-2, with everything hooked up to an ÜberBUSS filtration unit, so that may smooth out the highs a bit.

I haven't tried the USB input yet on the DAC, either. As always, each system will sound different and have different synergy between components. I'd give it a shot.

[bhobba]

My concern is this sibilance issue. 'no doubt the Computer -> DAC interconnect issues will get resolved. For the first time ever, I've ordered a product sight unseen, more importantly sound unseen. I don't have the DAC-2 yet and now I'm very concerned about this possible sibilance. This would drive me nuts. I'm tempted to cancel my order to await more reports on how the thing actually sounds. suggestions would be greatly appreciated from anyone!

This is really hard to give advice on.  First the speakers we heard the sibilance was very revealing - Mike lines them with steel and they are as dead as hell - you hear everything warts and all.  If you do a search on Ml1's you will see they are very revealing speakers and the Ml3's I heard this on are even more revealing.  The guy who bought the Havana along could not hear sibilance on his system and he had dynaaudio speakers which are no slouch in the revealing department.  Yet the sibilance was clear on the Havana using the ML3's - the sibilance on the WFS was less than the Havana - but still noticeable.  My gut feeling for what its worth you probably won't hear it - almost certainly you wont hear it if you presently can't hear it. The other issue is what DAC are you going to get instead of it?  I really don't know of any DAC better than it in that price range - except maybe the Tranquility.  The DAC that beat it was at least twice as expensive and heavily tweaked.

I bought the DAC and even with the sibilance issue I am happy with the sound - the annoying thing for me is the driver issue - but that will get resolved eventually.  Bottom line IMHO is you will almost certainly not notice a sibilance problem.

Thanks
Bill

[rayooo]

Thank you highfilter and bhobba

I am going to keep the order in place and have a go at W4SDAC2.
I know most of us have our own specific hot-buttons in audio, mine is and always has been that overly sibilant sound.

a few months back I bought a Dac-magic to experiment with PC digital to DAC. The experiment was a raving success and I've now got the beginnings of a 24bit/96khz music library (FLAC) on NAS.
As good as DACMagic was, I'm presuming the W4S will better it in most respects. 

One thing that just hit me, is W4SDAC2 capable of receiving firmware updates in the field?

[bhobba]

I am going to keep the order in place and have a go at W4SDAC2. I know most of us have our own specific hot-buttons in audio, mine is and always has been that overly sibilant sound. Afew months back I bought a Dac-magic to experiment with PC digital to DAC. The experiment was a raving success and I've now got the beginnings of a 24bit/96khz music library (FLAC) on NAS. As good as DACMagic was, I'm presuming the W4S will better it in most respects.One thing that just hit me, is W4SDAC2 capable of receiving firmware updates in the field?

I am extremely sensitive to sibilance and the sibilance I heard on the WFS was not a problem for me.  Since I found it I locked onto it as it was a definite factor in giving the nod to the 1704 - but it was not annoying.  The WFS is a few quantum jumps above the DAC Magic - its no contest.  If you don't notice sibilance on a DAC Magic you almost certainly wont notice it on the WFS.  And the detail you will hear is the best I have heard on any DAC period.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Hi Again All

Had a chance to put the WFS into my system and ho-rah ho-rah actually got it to work by using the Kernel Streaming mode of J River as recommended by EJ at WFS.  Even got the 192/24 bit up-sampling working.  Already I can say it is a few notches above the Audio GD Compass I was using before - but I already knew that from the comparisons we had done.  Interestingly it may have toned down a bit of metallic glare and sibilance control that I put down to the little tripath amp I was previously using. Will report further as my listening progresses.

Thanks
Bill

[Rocket]

Hi,

Glad you got your dac/computer working the way you wanted it to.

Regarding sibilance I think that this can often be put down to the recording that we listen to and cd.  In my experience vinyl doesn't seem to have the same issues that cd technology displays.  I have finally got my amplifier repaired and I find that sibilance can be an issue but it also depends on the recording as well.  Whilst quality of components does matter to a certain extent in the end the recording seems to provide a certain amount of influence on the outcome of the sound.

Regards

Rod

[bhobba]

Now I got the 192/24 bit up-sampling working and have been listening for a few hours- WOW - the detail this thing retrieves is quite simply breathtaking.  For example did you know there was a bit of tape hiss in parts of Christina Aguilera Back to Basics - neither did I - but I heard it very clearly.  Not only that but the slight glare and sibilance has now been reduced to the point you have to concentrate a bit to hear it most of the time.  I think while Mikes DAC is better hearing it ths way (ie via up-sampling and asynchronous USB) may level the playing field a bit. There even less doubt in my mind now computer audio is the future.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Glad you got your dac/computer working the way you wanted it to.

Thanks.  And IMHO the upsampled USB from the computer sounds better than SPDIF.

Regarding sibilance I think that this can often be put down to the recording that we listen to and cd.  In my experience vinyl doesn't seem to have the same issues that cd technology displays.  I have finally got my amplifier repaired and I find that sibilance can be an issue but it also depends on the recording as well.  Whilst quality of components does matter to a certain extent in the end the recording seems to provide a certain amount of influence on the outcome of the sound.

Saturday last week we did a very interesting comparison between the WFS, Havana, and Mike's 1704.  The Havana had more sibilance than the WFS, which had only a little, while Mikes DAC had virtually none.  The same when I changed my Audio GD for the WFS.  Now less sibilance.

Thanks
Bill

[ted_b]

Bill,
You need to find some 24/192 native files (no stinkin' upsampling).  They are incredible sounding.  My hiRez circle has several links to free ones.

[Jon L]

actually got it to work by using the Kernel Streaming mode of J River as recommended by EJ at WFS. 

Glad you didn't have to throw your computer out the window. 

It does concern me a little that you can only get the W4S DAC to work in USB mode with Kernel Streaming, though.  From various USB DAC's and USB/spdif converters I've used, I know from experience that it's much easier to get kernel streaming working with USB than ASIO.  It's also much easier to get ASIO4All working compared to ASIO. 

Unfortunately, I prefer the sonic qualities of ASIO (Otachan) over KS and ASIO4All, so I continue to look out for USB DAC that will support ASIO.  And I can totally understand why KS seems to reduce sibilance because IME, KS sounds "smoother," less sibilant, and more laid back.  Guys who are into vinyl usually prefer KS over ASIO, for example. 

Me, I like my coffee strong enough to rip out my stomach lining, and I like my music clear, present, and dangerous 

[bhobba]

You need to find some 24/192 native files (no stinkin' upsampling).  They are incredible sounding.  My hiRez circle has several links to free ones.

I have a few as well.  Must check them out.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

It does concern me a little that you can only get the W4S DAC to work in USB mode with Kernel Streaming, though.  From various USB DAC's and USB/spdif converters I've used, I know from experience that it's much easier to get kernel streaming working with USB than ASIO.  It's also much easier to get ASIO4All working compared to ASIO.  Unfortunately, I prefer the sonic qualities of ASIO (Otachan) over KS and ASIO4All, so I continue to look out for USB DAC that will support ASIO.  And I can totally understand why KS seems to reduce sibilance because IME, KS sounds "smoother," less sibilant, and more laid back.  Guys who are into vinyl usually prefer KS over ASIO, for example.  Me, I like my coffee strong enough to rip out my stomach lining, and I like my music clear, present, and dangerous 

Actually I didn't even try ASIO.  The reason is I have heard reports you get clicks every 4-15 seconds or so under Windows 7.  While I firmly believe computer audio is the future unfortunately a few issues such as this still needs to be sorted out.  I have heard good things about the AQVOX ASIO drivers but have not seen anything about how to get it working with J River and there is still the clicking issue.  However I believe as time goes by all the drivers will improve and eventually there wont be any difference between bit perfect drivers.

Thanks
Bill

[WGH]

I have heard good things about the AQVOX ASIO drivers but have not seen anything about how to get it working with J River and there is still the clicking issue.

I would be interested in reading the good things written about the AQVOX ASIO drivers because I tried them out and was not impressed.

My comparison:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83962.msg812523#msg812523

Wayne

[bhobba]

I would be interested in reading the good things written about the AQVOX ASIO drivers because I tried them out and was not impressed.

Got it from the Tranquility thread and I seem to recall some other place as well but I can't remember exactly where.  Interesting your findings.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

I have a few as well.  Must check them out.

Just checking them out now and they sound FANTASTIC.  No trace of sibilance whatever - and that little Tripath amp never sounded better.  Listening to Jazz vocals that 9W amp produces more than enough volume for me.  The problem comes when you muck around with much more dynamic stuff that likes to be played loud such as heavy metal.

Thanks
Bill