What does the measurements on a common $152 pair of speaker look like?

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #80 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 02:03 am »

Quote from: DanTheMan on 19 Jul 2010, 06:16 pm

These certainly look a lot like the older Mackies with the exception being the ports. The new line of Behringer monitors also mirrors the new Mackies. The older Mackies I've listened to didn't have the ports next to the tweeter which I think is a good idea because in the graphs I've taken below the ports, the off axis response is smoother.

Dan

Yes, the mackies use passive radiators, which I assume Behringer left out to cut costs. From what I remember of these siblings, they're not bad

DanTheMan · « **Reply #81 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 07:34 am »

They may well not be the best horse in the world, but they're a runnin son of a gun--to paraphrase Charlie Patten. I'll put $152 on'em.

Their little brothers B2030P can be had for about $100.
Here's what I've found on them from Linaeum.com

I don't know anything about the measuring conditions, but it looks like there is a lot of reflections in the polar graph.

Dan

DanTheMan · « **Reply #82 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 09:31 pm »

OK, so I took some shots of the innards today. I'll get some stuff to do modifications and see if it makes a measurable difference. I'm going to try and generate some plots using the new REW so we can get a better look at resonance issues. The crossover looks like a minimalist WGed 2-way with just a cap and resistor in the tweeter with a 2nd order low pass. That's why you can see the woofer's break up creep into the tweeter's range of the response. The active version should do much better in this regard even though there's not a huge problem in the passive version. We see poly caps, an iron core inductor, and a wirewound resistor. The baffle is stout on the woofer half, but thinner on the tweeter. Enclosure damping is certainly less than I've ever used. That may be where we could best improve the design.

Dan

Danny Richie · « **Reply #83 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 10:47 pm »

Hey DanTheMan,

You know, if you never have to listen to it (just keep it around for measuring) then why do anything?

If however, you want it to sound better, then I think I'd start with throwing away that crossover. There is nothing worse than an iron core inductor, a sand caste resistor and cheap (made in China) mylar caps. The caps could be polyester. I would really be surprised if the were polypropylene. Either way, they'd have to go.

gprro · « **Reply #84 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 10:48 pm »

These look pretty cool! I'll probably end up getting a pair for mixing when I start figuring out logic pro and the other production software on my mac.

As far as mods, someone should send a pair to Danny at GR and see what he thinks. I know he offered a couple mod packages for other inexpensive speakers that made nice improvements. These speakers look like much higher quality drivers too.

gprro · « **Reply #85 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 10:48 pm »

Haha!!! Danny posted right as I was posting this!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #86 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 11:05 pm »

If you guys want to send me a pair, and cover the shipping back to you, then I'll measure them ever which way you can and let you know what I think (for free).

jtwrace · « **Reply #87 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 11:26 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 21 Jul 2010, 11:05 pm

If you guys want to send me a pair, and cover the shipping back to you, then I'll measure them ever which way you can and let you know what I think (for free).

Now that's a no brainer to me...

wushuliu · « **Reply #88 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 11:42 pm »

If he has more negatives than positives to say though you'll get the 'he's biased' , etc. arguments. Actually, he'll probably get that anyway regardless.

Still, that's a great offer. The more info about these speakers the better.

jtwrace · « **Reply #89 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 11:55 pm »

Quote from: wushuliu on 21 Jul 2010, 11:42 pm

If he has more negatives than positives to say though you'll get the 'he's biased' , etc. arguments. Actually, he'll probably get that anyway regardless.

Still, that's a great offer. The more info about these speakers the better.

It's not his opinion though...he's taking measurements in a proper Anechoic Chamber. Sure he'll (Danny) will give his opinion but it's just that. If nothing else, you get Anechoic Chamber measurements for shipping costs.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #90 on:** 21 Jul 2010, 11:58 pm »

This thread just got interesting.

Anand.

lowtech · « **Reply #91 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 12:05 am »

Quote from: jtwrace on 21 Jul 2010, 11:55 pm

It's not his opinion though...he's taking measurements in a proper Anechoic Chamber. Sure he'll (Danny) will give his opinion but it's just that. If nothing else, you get Anechoic Chamber measurements for shipping costs.

Did Danny recently build an anechoic chamber?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #92 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 12:06 am »

I don't have my 24 foot long anechoic chamber any more. I sold that building and moved on.

I really don't miss it all that much though. I can do a semi anechoic measurement from as far away as 50" (usually 1 meter) using gated time windows and get the same response (no reflections) that I was getting in my chamber. And it's accurate down to around 200Hz.

I can already give you my opinion.

They may be a good value for the money, but don't expect much more. The crossover parts quality ($4.00 worth maybe) is just what you'd expect for a speaker in that price range. Same goes for the box (unbraced MDF with a felt liner), binding posts, wire, etc.

It may have been well engineered but built to a price point. So there is likely a lot that can be done to take it to another level if somebody really wanted to.

Now, you have my opinion for whatever it's worth.

All that aside, my measurements have no opinions.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #93 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 12:36 am »

Quote from: poseidonsvoice on 21 Jul 2010, 11:58 pm

This thread just got interesting.

Very interesting... I'm amazed that Danny would even bother...

sts9fan · « **Reply #94 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 02:06 am »

Just keep commercial offerings in your own circle. Pro bono
is cool here.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #95 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 02:38 am »

Quote from: Danny on 21 Jul 2010, 10:47 pm

Hey DanTheMan,

You know, if you never have to listen to it (just keep it around for measuring) then why do anything?

If however, you want it to sound better, then I think I'd start with throwing away that crossover. There is nothing worse than an iron core inductor, a sand caste resistor and cheap (made in China) mylar caps. The caps could be polyester. I would really be surprised if the were polypropylene. Either way, they'd have to go.

Danny, I got to admit that I'm shocked by your opinion. OK, I was just kidding. Actually I still have a pair in their usual position and in operation as I type. One shouldn't assume.

I just wanted to see the results of some recommended tweaks. Seems what most people recommend is well founded--improve internal damping material. I'll deal with acoustic issues first. The caps are mkt(Polyester) FWIW. Maybe I should have specified which poly. It just makes no difference to me. Call me a skeptic. The whole thing is made in China. That's why they are so inexpensive and a lot of great speakers are made there. The tolerances are obviously good. Just look at the test you pointed to earlier in this thread--you can do much worse for a whole lot more. The baffle is over an inch thick and the cabinet has a shelf brace. Sort of reminds me of the Parts Express cabinets. Too bad a pair of those this size cost more than a pair of these complete speakers--well engineered at that. Perhaps it's more like well reverse engineered.

Ok, I gotta run and get some magnets. My golf swing needs some tweaking.

Dan

Danny Richie · « **Reply #96 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 03:14 am »

Quote

Just keep commercial offerings in your own circle. Pro bono is cool here.

No worries.

I have always had an open policy to measure and test anything for anybody free of charge. Typically I'd rather that they bring it in because I spend more time packaging and un-packaging than I do setting it up and running all the measurements. If it is big then you're bringing it in. If it is small enough then I don't mind it so much.

I have various companies bring stuff in every month or so. One company that has been in every show there was in the past year, and advertises pretty heavy in most magazines, was just here a few months ago. I usually can learn something from it too, even if it is just something about the people. Even if they don't purchase services from me, they might want to in the future.

If I measure and test something for a hobbyist then usually it is because they are having issues. I give them a list of problems, solutions, or recommendations. The value of that often gains their business.

So while it is a free service, what comes around goes around. So even if I am giving something away for free in a since I am still selling something of myself.

I am still okay in this circle with that I hope.

JDUBS · « **Reply #97 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 03:54 am »

Quote from: sts9fan on 19 Jul 2010, 03:18 pm

and he would caution others that you may have a bone to pick with him correct?

And please no baiting.

-Jim

DanTheMan · « **Reply #98 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 05:39 am »

Oh, I should just add that the binding posts are very sturdy, have a good clamping power, and what I'd consider high quality--there not jewelry quality and yes I've seen better for more money. Beats the heck out of anything in this price range. Same goes for the cabinet. I'm not sure my pictures show the cabinet innards well enough, but look above the crossover for bracing. Go to Best Buy or Wall Mart and check out the stuff in this price range. You'll see what I mean. I was just at BB and Fry's today. Man am I happy I found these. The enclosure damping however............ still looks on par with it's price range, just not above and beyond like the rest of the design. Fancy parts are fancy parts, but great engineering is priceless.

That brings me to another point I just have to get off my chest and it's going to be opinionated: You gotta wonder why the listening rooms in the big box stores are set up so poorly and what processing they are using. Aren't they trying to sell speakers? I mean I get it, space constraints and all, but really! While I'm there listening, I just feel like there's no way these speakers sound this bad from some pretty well respected loudspeaker companies that now sell there. Something's got to be radically wrong, but the room doesn't look too bad. Speaker placement is bad however. Every time I'm in one of these places for something, I have to stop in and listen and then leave and wonder. Fortunately the local HiFi shop is much better. They even have some products in the same price range as BB and Fry's that look much nicer. The sound at the HiFi (Audio High) shop is also in a different league no matter what is being played. I bought my Receiver at Fry's. I knew better than to listen to it there--I would have never bought anything. At home, I'm absolutely satisfied. Some of the best money I've spent. I do wish the tuner picked up better............

Dan

scorpion · « **Reply #99 on:** 22 Jul 2010, 12:30 pm »

OK, let's have a German, the home of Behringer, opinon:

Ein paar passive Nahfeldmonitore mit 8" Speakern für unter 200,- Euro zu finden wird schon schwierig, Behringer macht es jedoch mit den B2031 möglich. Der Sound ist aber sehr ausgewogen: Klare Höhen, satte Bässe und die Mitten stimmen auch, wobei nicht wie bei Hifi Lautsprechern der Sound klanglich beeinflusst (geschönt) wird, sondern exakt das wiedergegeben wird, was die Klangquelle hervorbringt. Der Frequenzgang ist wirklich sehr linear.

Ich nutzte das Monitorpaar sowohl zum Abhören, als auch für die Wiedergabe von CDs. Auch mein Digitalpiano klingt sehr überzeugend über die Truths. Wer noch keine hochwertige Studioendstufe besitzt, sollte evtl. zu den B2031A, die aktive Version der Monitore, greifen. Ansonsten eine echte Kaufempfehlung!

In English:

A pair passive Nearfield Monitors with 8 "speakers for under 200, - € is already difficult to find, Behringer makes it possible with the B2031. The sound is very well balanced: Clear highs, rich bass and the mids are also very good, although not as influenced by the sound of Hi-Fi stereo speakers (overemphasized), but exactly that is displayed, what the sound source produces. The frequency response is actually very linear.

I used the Monitorpaar both for listening, and for the playback of CDs. Even my Digital Piano sounds very convincing over the Truths. Who does not own a high-quality studio power amplifier should possibly resort to the B2031A , the active version of the monitors. Otherwise, a real buy recommendation!

I have just put a few corrections to make this Google translation readable in English.

From: http://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_b2031p_truth.htm#bewertung , all buyers who review are overall very satisfied with this speaker.

/Erling