[planet10]

Thanks Dave. I guess that I'll stick to PE curved boxes then.

We have our JS92 in a set of 7 litre PE curvies... ported to Jim Griffins specs. Use them to help show how good the CHR70eNs are.

dave

[JohnR]

Okay, I just wrote to Mr. Content regarding this.  Sorry for all the OT.

I forgot there was a change already. So that would be Nigel, not Jim. I guess we'll hear anything if there is anything to hear. If you do take over and plan to make significant changes to the purpose/guidelines then it would probably be best to run a poll first.

[Mariusz]

Mariusz,

Ah, from the original post that started this thread:
 

This guy seemed to appreciate the cap by-pass wiring tip too:

Then he tried the ribbon tweeter facing the rear trick:
 

So at least some people appreciated the tips.

But hey, if you want to run me off, fine.

Danny
I am pretty sure that MORE people would appreciate your feedback, tips and tricks but please understand the fundamental purpose of this circle.
(if we start adding tweeters, woofers........perhaps bi or tri-amping etc...........well, you see where I am going with this - it just wouldn't make a very nice SD speaker desingn, would it?  )

BTW
I've a feeling that you're taking it a bit too personal and you really shouldn't.
You are really nice guy and this certainly isn't a witch hunt but a friendly request to respect originally lay down guidelines. That's all.
 

[Danny Richie]

Danny
I am pretty sure that MORE people would appreciate your feedback, tips and tricks but please understand the fundamental purpose of this circle.
(if we start adding tweeters, woofers........perhaps bi or tri-amping etc...........well, you see where I am going with this - it just wouldn't make a very nice SD speaker desingn, would it?  )

BTW
I've a feeling that you're taking it a bit too personal and you really shouldn't.
You are really nice guy and this certainly isn't a witch hunt but a friendly request to respect originally lay down guidelines. That's all.

I can respect the guidelines of the circle and apologize if I strayed from those guidelines, but I am not the one that started this thread and discussion about adding tweeters, etc. And I am not the only one that discussed it. So don't just blame me. If it started out beyond the guidelines of the circle then maybe the moderator should have moved it to another circle to begin with.

[JohnR]

The original post is fine and within the guidelines. That is obvious, so frankly Danny, it really feels to me at that point that you're mostly interested in dominating the speaker discussion on this site, and I'm afraid that isn't going to fly. You have your circle; outside of that, you have to respect the spirit and intent of wherever it is that you are posting.

As far as the guidelines go, in my opinion, the existing guidelines are very well thought-out. Even if you don't agree, that's too bad, because they're set, until changed. They would only be changed by someone with a genuine (and non-commercial) interest in this particular type of loudspeaker. You (Danny) have no real interest in single-driver speakers - you don't sell one, or a kit for one, or anything. Your position on single-driver speakers seems to be pretty well summed up by your statement

I have yet to find a full range type driver that will do it for me with or without a tweeter added.

I'm not going to go dig up every anti-fullrange quote from you in this here circle but they aren't hard to find. If you want to help people - great. But seriously, you need to be a bit more supportive of any specific circle's goals if you're going to continue to post outside your own circle.

[Danny Richie]

That is obvious, so frankly Danny, it really feels to me at that point that you're mostly interested in dominating the speaker discussion on this site, and I'm afraid that isn't going to fly.

No John, that is not true at all. I am not out to dominate speaker discussion on this site. And I rarely have had time to even post outside of my own circle.

And just because I haven't found a full range driver that does it for me does not me I am anti-full range. I have even designed networks for commercial speakers that use full range drivers. And I might be working with a field coil driver soon. I also have stacks of full range drivers here that I have tested. Some of them are really good.

It is pretty clear though that an industry member has his hands tied when it comes to any subjective opinion being stated about anything. So I'll try not to say anything of that nature any more if I can help it and will venture less outside my own circle.

[JLM]

Wow, glad I generated so much activity, too bad most of it revolves around brused feelings.  I don't know why this little corner of audiodom seems to generate so much angst.  IME single driver designs focus on the essence of the music (the critical midrange) and, more so than in other designs, willing gives up what so much of the industry thrives on (numbers games, constantly upgrading, and pushing the boundries into the impractical).

OTOH, yes a very purist/strict approach to very wide-bandwidth single driver speakers leaves very few options and most of those are very expensive.  But a great many good, less expensive options exist if you add a subwoofer or even a super tweeter, that still stay within the ground rules as I read them. 

One of the other premises I like about the single driver approach is the admission that there is no perfect speaker.  If everyone would admit that, it might bring some of the "high and mightys" (who would never visit this circle) to appreciate the single driver concept.

[sts9fan]

I also think they are a great way to drag people into this diseased state.  The entry price is a bit more "normal" and you can get really FUN sound with them.  I have been on a crusade by lending people the ones I build.  Maybe some will take the bait. 
we tried our best to get this back on track but alas.
I did weld up some stands for my Solo103s last night. 

Edit:  I also totally disagree that this is a quiet circle.  Most of them get way less traffic.

[mytubes211]

  So I'll try not to say anything of that nature any more if I can help it and will venture less outside my own circle.

But Danny, you know that you can not help yourself. 

[chrisby]

I posted the measured data and listening comparisons here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=59575.0

thanks, I'd assumed the testing session was more recent than that

[chrisby]

I also think they are a great way to drag people into this diseased state.  The entry price is a bit more "normal" and you can get really FUN sound with them.  I have been on a crusade by lending people the ones I build.  Maybe some will take the bait. 
we tried our best to get this back on track but alas.
I did weld up some stands for my Solo103s last night. 

Edit:  I also totally disagree that this is a quiet circle.  Most of them get way less traffic.

lest we forget - there can be such a thing as too much "traffic" and emotional reactionism, and not enough circumspection or consideration of context (case in point - the provenance of this particular incarnation of AC "full-range" forum )

there are numerous reasons/pathways that brought us hobbyists to this lifestyle / addiction, and while we all like to tell ourselves little white lies as to our intentions, it would be disingenuous to aver that some degree of egotism isn't involved when it comes to forum postings

That said, I can certainly understand how the attitude or implied motives of Danny's posts in this thread could be considered no more provocative, contrarian or self-serving than many of my and several others' own here and elsewhere.  Actually, I know for a fact how easily an initial comment can be misinterpreted, and a reputation built on the willful misconstruction and selective parsing of all subsequent discussions.

it's a thin line

Human nature being what it is, I'm not sure that even a thorough revision / restatement of forum guidelines, even assuming consensus, would preclude recurrence of these occasional hissy fits. 

 

[JohnR]

I also think they are a great way to drag people into this diseased state.  The entry price is a bit more "normal" and you can get really FUN sound with them. 

I absolutely agree. After a number of very disappointing experiences with commercial (off-the-shelf and kit) two-ways, building some speakers using full-range drivers was an important way for me to recover some enthusiasm for the hobby.

[el`Ol]

I have heard 6.5" Lowther, Veravox 5, Fostex FE126E, Ciare CH250 HX201 HX160 HX135, various mid-fi drivers incl. B*SE. The only one that has transparent, non-smoky highs in my ears is the HX135. Wish it had the freedom of compression as larger/more sensitive drivers.
What is the largest "non-papery" sounding paper cone you know?

[rjbond3rd]

8" AER Mk 1 sounds good and there's no papery sound.  It is very extended, smooth and balanced.  No audible peaks jump out at me.  AER is like a very neutral Lowther, which I suppose it was designed to be.

I will try to hear the Ciare HX135, el `Ol.

[rajacat]

IMO the Omega 5" hempcone drivers handle high frequencies very well. They can catch the slightest shimmer of cymbals and hold on to it. I can hear the piccolo in a symphony and catch the entire range of the orchestra. (I think! ) However, in order the capture all the lows and their impact a sub is required. I have the Omega Hemp Bipoles that double the displacement so that the little drivers aren't overwhelmed with larger works. The bipoles also help with the baffle step problem and and my homemade felt defraction busters help too.

I surprised that the bipole configuration hasn't received more attention by speaker builders. I suppose it's because the form requires a substantial distance from the back wall to work properly. If you have a dedicated audio room the problem is solved. I suppose that, intuitively you'd think that they wouldn't image well but I've found mine to image well enough to place the instruments in an orchestra and small jazz groups it's almost pinpoint. Their main drawback would be the lack of that big speaker feel although it's amazing how those 4 little drivers can fill a room. Also if I push them hard they'll sound stressed at very high volume.

[FredT300B]

This thread has covered a lot of ground since my initial post in June. I didn't mention in the initial post there's an on-off switch for the rear-firing supertweeter, so if I switch it to the off position they definitely qualify as single drivers, but anybody who hears them with the tweeter off and with it switched on will prefer it in the on position, especially if the music includes percussion instruments.

To my ears these speakers sound more natural, with fewer frequency response anomalies than any of the other single driver speakers I've built using Audion Nirvana, Fostex and Tang Band full range drivers. And they do this with no contour network - the only thing between the amp and the drivers is a binding post. Since their last appearance on AC these speakers have received new outrigger feet, a new paint job for the front baffle, and upgraded binding posts on the back.

In this picture they're being driven by a 1,000W/ch (into their 4 ohms impedance) D-Sonic Icepower amp. Great bass control 

[el`Ol]

I will try to hear the Ciare HX135, el `Ol.

I will build 80 cm folded TLs with driver on top the next weeks and report about it. 160 cm TL length looks good in simulations and tonally it is best slightly less than 90° off-axis. Reducing excursion with the TLs could also be benedicial when it's getting louder, compared to quasi-IB.

[planet10]

IMO the Omega 5" hempcone drivers handle high frequencies very well.

By all reports an excellent sounding driver.

Interesting that the label says patented, last i checked it was a patent application... and the preferred receipe for the paper had manillia hemp, which isn't really hemp at all (as referenced to true hemp from the Cannabis plant). Manillia is a relative to the banana plant.

dave

[cujobob]

What's a great 'value' single driver to mess around with?  By that, I mean something that truly wows at its pricepoint...whatever it may be.  I'm just looking for something to round out my collection of various designs just to see what I like and what works in different applications.

Are drivers interchangeable of the same size (cutouts0?  I'm wondering if I have someone build me out a box if I could use that box to try different drivers.  I'm guessing within a same brand it's possible, at the very least.

[planet10]

Madisound is almost giving away Mark Audio CHR70 (based on price/performance). Add an EnABL kit from Ed laFontaine (and use it) and you have something that outclasses Jordan JX92S.

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=192&products_id=8859 (also available in grey)



Lots of proven boxes -- from 5 litre sealed up to 5 ft high double mouthed horns

dave