Bypass caps

Ron · « **Reply #20 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 02:18 pm »

I agree with Danny. The Sonicap platinum caps definitely do make a noticable improvement in clarity and resolution, but the upstream electronics need to be capable of providing a clean input to the speakers.

Ron

iskandam · « **Reply #21 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 06:29 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 8 Jul 2010, 12:56 pm

Well, on a really top notch level speaker that I am building for myself, I do it.

How about the N3?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #22 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 07:09 pm »

Quote

How about the N3?

If the rest of the system was to that level then I would. If I were running it from a receiver or something then I would not.

NagysAudio · « **Reply #23 on:** 9 Jul 2010, 07:01 am »

ERO MKT1822 are the best bypass caps. Make sure you use the ERO version and not Vishay. You can still get them NOS on eBay.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #24 on:** 9 Jul 2010, 09:18 pm »

Quote

ERO MKT1822 are the best bypass caps. Make sure you use the ERO version and not Vishay. You can still get them NOS on eBay.

What makes you think that cheap polyester cap is the best by-pass cap for anything?

face · « **Reply #25 on:** 9 Jul 2010, 11:45 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 8 Jul 2010, 02:02 pm

It will make it more revealing, lower the noise floor and reduce smearing. Those are all good things. But be careful of your upstream electronics with that tweeter. Anything to the harsh side will come through that way.

I found that a single, high quality cap is best to use in series with a driver, especially in the HF circuit. Paralleling caps to attain a specific value or bypass always caused smearing for me. I haven't experienced this in shunts though. This is just my experience, YMMV.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 Jul 2010, 12:16 am »

Where you get your problem is doing something like using a 3uF and a 6uF to make a 9uF. Now you have two different dissipation rates both in an audible band. Using two 3uF to make a 6uF does not have that effect. By-passing with a .1uF or smaller won't have the smearing effect (quite the opposite) as the signal that is actually cared by the .1uF is mostly above the audible range.

iskandam · « **Reply #27 on:** 10 Jul 2010, 02:12 am »

Is .1uF the "one size fits all" value for bypass or is there a more specific way to calculate the best value depending on the application?

dBe · « **Reply #28 on:** 10 Jul 2010, 03:13 am »

Quote from: iskandam on 10 Jul 2010, 02:12 am

Is .1uF the "one size fits all" value for bypass or is there a more specific way to calculate the best value depending on the application?

The traditional method of bypassing is the "order of magnitude" bypass. To bypass a 100ufd cap you would use a 10ufd, 1ufd, .1ufd, .01ufd, .001ufd... This is certaionly not needed in audio today since the caps are much better. I use a .1ufd and .01ufd on most of my projects with capacitances > 3ufd to clean up the highs and get the transients right with good s p a c e (definition) between the notes. Smaller than that I usually use something scaled in value to the largest cap and almost always use a .01 bypass in electronics coupling applications.

YMMV

Dave

Zerogravity · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 Jul 2010, 02:46 pm »

Danny, you mentioned that using the platnium caps are not a good idea utilizing a reciever? I imagine using these with a quality DAC or I-Pod with lossless would be ideal! I don't have a DAC, but if I were to use my I-pod/phone through my Marantz reciever in pure direct would be fine? Can you educate me as to what the best and most cost effective components I should use? I also loose sub output in source/pure direct, so I listen in audyssey E.Q. flat in order to utilize my subs! I know the Virtue has a great feature in a sub out, but I'm not to sure how to utilize this with what components? Thanks

Danny Richie · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 Jul 2010, 08:30 pm »

My thought on taking anything to an all out level is to make sure it isn't going to be bottle necked by something else that will nullify it.

The best bang for the buck amps that seem to get out of the way and not impart coloration are the Virtue amps. This is especial true running on batteries and with upgraded caps.

I also have a great DAC for sale listed here in my forum. It is my last DAC-60. I am not asking much for it so that is a cheap way to really step into top level sound.

A Tranquility DAC and Mac Mini set up is another step ahead still, but that combo is at a different price point.

You really can get there without spending a lot of money if you spend wisely.

Zerogravity · « **Reply #31 on:** 11 Jul 2010, 06:31 pm »

Thank you for the direction, I just want to make sure I do this right. It will probably be at a snails pace to obtain these, but then again I'm not that old (self lie)!

brother love · « **Reply #32 on:** 17 Jul 2010, 10:28 am »

Danny & others,

I've got a some speakers that I would like to steal some Sonicap Platinums from & put into my N2X's (& help sell the others in the process by getting the price further down to the masses). In 3 speakers, I could end up w/ (6) Platinums worth $175!

Only problem is that by the time I cut them out, the Platinum leads will be shortened. Add to that the N2x tweeter capacitors are larger dia. !

Can I splice/ solder-in extension wires to make up the difference, or is it not worth it due to degraded sound quality?

dBe · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Jul 2010, 02:16 pm »

Quote from: brother love on 17 Jul 2010, 10:28 am

Danny & others,

I've got a some speakers that I would like to steal some Sonicap Platinums from & put into my N2X's (& help sell the others in the process by getting the price further down to the masses). In 3 speakers, I could end up w/ (6) Platinums worth $175!

Only problem is that by the time I cut them out, the Platinum leads will be shortened. Add to that the N2x tweeter capacitors are larger dia. !

Can I splice/ solder-in extension wires to make up the difference, or is it not worth it due to degraded sound quality?

One of the others here. I would remove them and solder new leads on in a heartbeat. The only caveat here is you need to ask yourself a question: "Am I a good solder technician?" If the answer is 'yes', no problem. Make sure to use good wire and a eutectic solder, preferably with a silver content. I use Cardas.

An 'other' out,

Dave

dvenardos · « **Reply #34 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 11:48 pm »

So the .01ufd sonicap platinum is a little more than half as much as the .1ufd. Anyone tried the .01ufd in their speakers? That would make things a lot more affordable.

Quote from: dBe on 10 Jul 2010, 03:13 am

The traditional method of bypassing is the "order of magnitude" bypass. To bypass a 100ufd cap you would use a 10ufd, 1ufd, .1ufd, .01ufd, .001ufd... This is certaionly not needed in audio today since the caps are much better. I use a .1ufd and .01ufd on most of my projects with capacitances > 3ufd to clean up the highs and get the transients right with good s p a c e (definition) between the notes. Smaller than that I usually use something scaled in value to the largest cap and almost always use a .01 bypass in electronics coupling applications.

YMMV

Dave

Danny Richie · « **Reply #35 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 01:22 am »

Quote from: dvenardos on 29 Jul 2010, 11:48 pm

So the .01ufd sonicap platinum is a little more than half as much as the .1ufd. Anyone tried the .01ufd in their speakers? That would make things a lot more affordable.

My experience is that there is a trade off.

The smaller the value, the faster the dissipation rate, but less of the audible upper level harmonics, that fall just into the highest range of our hearing, is carried by the by-pass cap.

A bigger value and more of the upper level harmonics, that we can hear, are handled by the by-pass cap. But dissipation rate will be slightly less.

Typically the dissipation rate of these tiny values are already really fast. So often a .1uF to no smaller than a .033uF value may sound better than a .01uF value.

dvenardos · « **Reply #36 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 04:14 am »

Thanks Danny.

I see why you like the sonicaps. I just got the sonicap gen I with gen II bypass caps installed in the Virtue Two.2. It isn't broken in and still in my garage but my initial impression is very positive. The One.2 that you will be offering with sonicaps will be a big hit. Thanks for all your help and I think the Gen I/Gen II combo is going to be "good enough" for me for the time being.

dBe · « **Reply #37 on:** 30 Jul 2010, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: dvenardos on 30 Jul 2010, 04:14 am

Thanks Danny.

I see why you like the sonicaps. I just got the sonicap gen I with gen II bypass caps installed in the Virtue Two.2. It isn't broken in and still in my garage but my initial impression is very positive. The One.2 that you will be offering with sonicaps will be a big hit. Thanks for all your help and I think the Gen I/Gen II combo is going to be "good enough" for me for the time being.

I read all of the time about how bypassing polyp caps is a waste of time. I think your experience is a pretty good example of how worthwhile it is. Good caps on a tweeter are a lot like gourmet cooking. The large cap is there for the taste and texture and the small cap adds the flavor. Gen 1's with Gen 2's are a great combination. They get much better with time just like a good wine, too.

Bon appetit!

Dave

praedet · « **Reply #38 on:** 3 Aug 2010, 12:55 am »

Does anyone no of any high-end apeakers (>$20K) that have bypass caps?

I am participating in this thread

dBe · « **Reply #39 on:** 3 Aug 2010, 02:39 am »

Quote from: praedet on 3 Aug 2010, 12:55 am

Does anyone no of any high-end apeakers (>$20K) that have bypass caps?

I am participating in this thread

Here is a picture of a Thiel first order crossover The yellow caps are bypasses:

There are speaker builders that use bypasses - Wilson Audio, Nola, JBL, Westlake......

Dave