[Pez]

I live in Colorado and Microsoft apparantly opened one of only 3 Microsoft stores in the world there. Ironically the only reason I was at the mall was to try and get my hands on the illusive iPad camera accessory when I just happened to walk by it. I go inside and I have to say, it was pretty neato! Lots of Surface computers in store, 4 to be exact. 3D DLP televsion setup and of course lots and lots of Windows based laptops, desktops and phones (even saw a Zune for the 1st time in my life!!!). There were about 50 customers or so.

Probably the most eye catching aspect of the store is when you walk in and notice the beautiful display that wraps around the entire store. I believe the display was all LCD thin bezel displays stacked side by side and 2 tall all the way around. Great first impression.

Decided to actually play with some of the devices starting with the Surface computer. I touch the screen to start a program. Nothing happens. Touch it again... Still nothing. ok, maybe I'm touching it too lightly, perhaps not as responsive as the iPad display so I touch it harder. Bingo! I was actually not impressed in the least. All the animation was incredibly choppy, the resolution is very very poor and as I demonstrated the sensitivity to touch is down right abysmal.

I move on to the 3D DLP tv. Put on the stupid looking glasses and it was pretty cool actually! The 3D works very effectively and makes things really pop.  For me though, I found 2 major issues, 1st lateral motion looked really weird, jumpy and confusing. 2nd it took less than a minute for me to start getting a headache.

As for the rest of the stores products. Immensely disappointing for the reason that it's pretty much like walking into a best buy after you get done playing with the surface computer, there's no other 'Wow' products. Zune touch was boring and small, not really convincing as a viable alternative to Touch or iPhone.

So after that, went to the Apple store and there were about 100+ customers there. Freakin' ridiculous, busy and of course they were totally out of the camera accessory I was there for. The actual store sucks, the Apple store in this mall is way too small and poorly put together. But damn, were people spending money. Microsoft store, didn't see anyone leaving with a bag etc. I know this is the ultimate type of "fanboy" topic, but I can't help but post this comparison.

This topic written on my iPad.

[Russell Dawkins]

Apple seems to have a real handle on the design of touch sensitive surface control, compared to others' attempts to implement the same thing.

I get the feeling this is a real engineering challenge, otherwise I wouldn't be seeing such inferior results from big players with a lot of resources behind them. I saw an example of the same thing recently in my brother's Nokia N900 phone. The touchscreen response was iffy and inconsistent. Nokia is the biggest manufacturer in the cell phone market and this surprised me.

[Don_S]

I have never owned an Apple product.  I have only seen a iPod at CES.  I don't own Apple stock.

A friend has an iPad and I covet it. He let me play with it. It is so slick I want one even though I am not sure what I would use it for.  I would not read books or mags on it but I still want one. An iPad is actually great for those applications but I prefer curled in a chair with a hard copy. The iPad turned magazine pages as fast as I could move my finger and provided great links with easy access and return.  I was stunned by the speed and display quality. I am now a "believer".   

Apple has set a very high bar. Ain't competition grand?  When my laptop goes belly up, maybe, just maybe. But only if an iPad has eTrade-Pro and Fidelity Active Trader Pro applications.

[Doublej]

For poor folk like me the WOW of Microsoft is being able to purchase a 15" or 17" laptop for $500 (or less) vs. $1799 or $2299 for a Mac or being able to get an MP3 player with a display for $20 vs. $150.

[werd]

It is slick but its also designed to peck away at your bank account one app at a time. from what i seen everything can be done off a decent laptop with a bit of  knowledge.  Its really just a bunch of hyped up smoke and mirrors tactics to get you to pay more for whats already out there on pc.

[sts9fan]

I only buy products that Steve Jobs tells me too. Thinking hurts.

[skunark]

There's a real hardware difference between the $500 laptop vs $1799 Macbook Pro and is a real apple vs orange comparison.  The $500 laptop will have an older CPU, slower ram, integrated graphics, different display resolutions just to name a few.  But clearly if you don't see the value in that difference then you probably would not spend $1799 on a PC based laptop either, they also exist.    Depending where Apple is on the refresh cycle of that $1799 Macbook pro can be a good price, the older it gets the more competitive the workstation class Dells, HPs and Lenovos become.

Also if you don't understand what the hardware differences between $500 vs $1799 windows laptop offers then you probably don't need a macbook pro to begin with.  Another words, if you are can't tell a difference between a Yugo and a Corvette or a Samuel Adams from a Samuel Smiths, then perhaps buy the Yugo and drink the Samuel Adams.

There's not a lot of merit to the argument that Macs are overpriced.  The only merit is if you don't need the fastest CPU with more cache, discrete graphics that support openCL style hardware acceleration (Adobe CS5, FCP, etc), 802.11n (note the n), bluetooth, audio optical input/output, FW800, SD slot, dvd burner with reasonable backup software; and you probably don't if all your main tasks are email, ripping tunes or surfing the web, then spend the $500 and buy more music

[SET Man]

Hey!

  Wha!? There is a Microsoft store?

  I'm sure they are busy with customers trying to fix their PCs 

Take care,
Buddy

[Doublej]

There's a real hardware difference between the $500 laptop vs $1799 Macbook Pro and is a real apple vs orange comparison.  The $500 laptop will have an older CPU, slower ram, integrated graphics, different display resolutions just to name a few.  But clearly if you don't see the value in that difference then you probably would not spend $1799 on a PC based laptop either, they also exist.    Depending where Apple is on the refresh cycle of that $1799 Macbook pro can be a good price, the older it gets the more competitive the workstation class Dells, HPs and Lenovos become.

Also if you don't understand what the hardware differences between $500 vs $1799 windows laptop offers then you probably don't need a macbook pro to begin with.  Another words, if you are can't tell a difference between a Yugo and a Corvette or a Samuel Adams from a Samuel Smiths, then perhaps buy the Yugo and drink the Samuel Adams.

There's not a lot of merit to the argument that Macs are overpriced.  The only merit is if you don't need the fastest CPU with more cache, discrete graphics that support openCL style hardware acceleration (Adobe CS5, FCP, etc), 802.11n (note the n), bluetooth, audio optical input/output, FW800, SD slot, dvd burner with reasonable backup software; and you probably don't if all your main tasks are email, ripping tunes or surfing the web, then spend the $500 and buy more music

I never said a Mac overpriced merely that it was more expensive and priced beyond the reach or desired price point of some folks.

Yugo vs. Vette made me chuckle as I think the Yugo beat the Vette in quality in the years Yugo was manufactured.

[Pez]

You need to do a cost analysis before you make the statement that Macs are more expensive than PCs. What I mean by that is, while a Mac is clearly more expensive to many PCs, if you actually break down how much you are spending on an annual basis for your PC vs a Mac. For me I was spending quite a bit of money on hardware simply because my PCs kept meeting their demise rather early due to hardware failure and worst major software virus that killed not only my data, but also the hardware! In one year I had purchased and replaced no less than 3 computers because of hardware failures. I still use the very first Mac I ever owned (almost 4 years old now.) and it works flawlessly on the latest snow leopard OS.

 4 years ago PCs that were supposedly able to run vista couldn't even run it. I wonder how many millions of dollars angry consumers spent upgrading their "Vista ready" PCs to work with Vista. I know my parents were amongst those who got a bum deal and had to spend quite a bit to do so. 

[wje]

Hey!

  Wha!? There is a Microsoft store?

  I'm sure they are busy with customers trying to fix their PCs 

Take care,
Buddy

Maybe not, but I've heard that you could get locked in the store and have to CNTL+ALT+DEL to get out of the store.

To the OP, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.  The store sounds interesting.  Seriously.  Plus, this reply is being typed on a computer running MS software.

[MaxCast]

In my limited experience with apple (ok, I had a Mac+ in college) I have found that the products are more expensive but they work.  I've had more issues with connecting pc based mp3 players, phones, etc than with ipods and itunes.  Apple products do have some issues with me too like compatibility/proprietary software and battery replacement but I still love my touch and want an iphone one day.  I don't know this for fact but I get the feeling that pc based phones have a shorter life cycle (in regards to software, user interface, dirvers, support, etc) than apple products.

I don't own the most expensive or better sounding audio equipment, expensive autos or drink the best tasting beer but I don't knock them either.

I don't buy products that Steve Jobs tells me to but I hear all librarians use apples 

[ctviggen]

You need to do a cost analysis before you make the statement that Macs are more expensive than PCs. What I mean by that is, while a Mac is clearly more expensive to many PCs, if you actually break down how much you are spending on an annual basis for your PC vs a Mac. For me I was spending quite a bit of money on hardware simply because my PCs kept meeting their demise rather early due to hardware failure and worst major software virus that killed not only my data, but also the hardware! In one year I had purchased and replaced no less than 3 computers because of hardware failures. I still use the very first Mac I ever owned (almost 4 years old now.) and it works flawlessly on the latest snow leopard OS.

 4 years ago PCs that were supposedly able to run vista couldn't even run it. I wonder how many millions of dollars angry consumers spent upgrading their "Vista ready" PCs to work with Vista. I know my parents were amongst those who got a bum deal and had to spend quite a bit to do so.

I've performed the cost analysis many, many times and PCs have always come out ahead.  I had no problems upgrading my basically three year old computer from Windows XP to Windows 7.  And it runs flawlessly and is very fast.  My problem with Macs is that they quite expensive to begin with, I have no software for them so I'd be buying all of my software again, they're not upgradeable, and they come lightly outfitted unless you get ridiculously expensive.  Then, there are things like the iPad, which I still cannot determine why I'd buy the thing when it's so expensive.  For $500, I could have a fully functioning laptop to run Squeeze Center or Squeeze Play, etc.  With the iPad, I what?  Surf the web?

[planet10]

It is slick but its also designed to peck away at your bank account one app at a time. from what i seen everything can be done off a decent laptop with a bit of  knowledge.  Its really just a bunch of hyped up smoke and mirrors tactics to get you to pay more for whats already out there on pc.

Try running your PC while you are standing and holding it with one hand... ipad is a game changer.

dave

[planet10]

As slunark says, comparable quality PCs are about the same cost as a Mac. And that doesn't consider that Macs tend to be useful for a lot longer. I just upgraded my 8 year old Mac for a 5 year old one. And i am a very serious user.

And there is no price you can put on the elegance of the software. Windows is 3rd rate software seemingly with the motto, "3 cliks when one would do". I just can't afford to put up with it, i have work to get done.

I have mostly given up on being a MacEvangilist... i don't hold a candle to real people that have switched from PC to Macs.

dave

[Doublej]

The Lenovo tablet has been around for years. And there are plenty of others. But when Apple releases something there are millions of lemmings that buy whatever it is. I tip my hat to Apple's marketing group., They are at least as good as Bose.

As far as longevity of PCs my family is running 3 machines that are at least 8 years old and another 3 that are at least five years old and only 3 machines under 5 years old.

Call Windows what you want but if you have a business to run Steve Jobs is not going to be of much help to you. How many of the Fortune 1000 run Apple as their primary desktop platform? 1? 3? 10?

[Bigfish]

Call Windows what you want but if you have a business to run Steve Jobs is not going to be of much help to you. How many of the Fortune 1000 run Apple as their primary desktop platform? 1? 3? 10?
 Logged

Why are folks so loyal to the PC?  We have all been hearded like cattle to accept the PC as mainsteam world and blindly go along where Microsoft leads us!  They talk about the great marketing job of Apple and I wonder if they have ever considered the fantastic marketing job done by Microsoft?  To get people to purchase flaw products with continual updates -- think about it as as an amazing job.  If Apple produced the flawed products as has Microsoft they would be out of business. 

My last comment is that it is hard to understand the amazing technology built into Apple Products if you refuse to try one!  I have no problems with folks being happy with PCs.  I still have to use a PC everyday, it works, it is a tool but my home PC is now a Mac!

Ken

[pardales]

I only buy products that Steve Jobs tells me too. Thinking hurts.

 

[Doublej]

Why are folks so loyal to the PC?  We have all been hearded like cattle to accept the PC as mainsteam world and blindly go along where Microsoft leads us!  They talk about the great marketing job of Apple and I wonder if they have ever considered the fantastic marketing job done by Microsoft?  To get people to purchase flaw products with continual updates -- think about it as as an amazing job.  If Apple produced the flawed products as has Microsoft they would be out of business. 

My last comment is that it is hard to understand the amazing technology built into Apple Products if you refuse to try one!  I have no problems with folks being happy with PCs.  I still have to use a PC everyday, it works, it is a tool but my home PC is now a Mac!

Ken

I have both a PC and a Macintosh. I understand the technology. It's not so amazing to me. OSX is rock solid but that's only part of the equation. I value choice, Apple provides little.

Want a 10, 12 or 14" laptop? Can't get it from Apple.
Want a ruggedized laptop? Can't get it from Apple.
Up until recently, want a touchscreen laptop? Had to buy it from a third party that took a MacBook and retrofitted it for with a TouchScrenn.
Want to use Verizon or TMobile as your cellular carrier? Not with an Iphone.

The list goes on and on and on and on and one...

[thunderbrick]

Windows 2000 was, in reality, Mac '84.

Vista was a disaster.

For years my wife (and her POS PC) looked down her nose at my 20+ years of Macs until I bought her one.

She took it into her office and after setting it up, staggered out and said "I don't get it.  It just WORKS!  You just plug stuff in and it works right away."

Now she has taken over my laptop as well, and she LOVES both.

I also work at a major engineering university, and Macs are growing like wildfire on this and many other campuses.

'nuf said!