[OzarkTom]

I am using a Sylvania JAN 5751 in my 901 right now, although I think  all the tubes I have tried so far - the JJ it comes with, RCA cleartop, Brimar 13d5, Telefunken ecc83, Matsushita 12ax7 - all sound pretty much the same to me. Slight differences in soundstage, some changes in tonal balance, but all very good.

All the tubes do sound good, even the stock JJ. The only tube I did not like was the Mullard. Just too soft and dark sounding for me.

[ebag4]

All I get is the white noise also, I guess that is what I am referring to. The GE 5751 is the loudest I have tested in ny system.

Hi OT,
Just wanted to say I believe you are correct regarding the GE 5751 being microphinic, I just hadn't realized it becasue it was no different than other tubes I had used in the Dodd Buffer.  I recieved a Amperex 7308 JAN white label and it makes ZERO noise when adjusting the volume....sound pretty good when playing as well!

Best,
Ed

[Parkfly]

Ozark Tom, thanks for the tube rollin!

I have been following this thread closely. I happen
to have most of the tubes you have tried and my ears agree with yours.

I have found a tube that seems to top the GE 5751!
My speakers are Monitor Audio RS6's.

I have noticed that as we move up in detail and resolution with the Sylvania 12AU7 and
then to the 5751, some of the warmth is lost. This is very apparent with femal vocals
such as Margo Timmins and Stevie Nicks. I really enjoyed the GE 5751, but I missed the
extra "tube sound" warmth of the stock JJ tube.

I had a tube in the bottom of the box that I had not tried.
It was an old RCA 6189 12AU7W JRC black plate.
I popped it in and on the very first note I heard what I was looking for.
It gave me everything the GE 5751 offered, PLUS WARMTH!
I'm not sure how this is possible, so I went back and listened to all my tubes and yes, it was real.

If you can try a RCA 6189 12AU7W JRC black plate, please let me know if you hear what I hear.
This must be a plentiful tube type cuz prices are lower.

[OzarkTom]

Thanks Parkfly, I wondered if everyone was getting bored with my tube rolling.

I just received a GE 5751 three mica 5 star and a 2 mica RCA 5751. I will be checking this out on the weekend. And Parkfly, I will have to get one of those RCA 6189 in. Did you get a 2 mica or 3 mica?

I also received a 3 mica grey plate GE, circa 1953 in last week. In comparison the 2 mica 5 star grey plate, the 3 mica@1953 has the warmth and magical midrange that so many loves and strives for. The soundstage width and height is as big as the 2 mica, but it also has those killer vocals. The soundstage is a little more forward with the 3 mica. The 2 mica is more analytical, the 3 mica has the warmth as well as the great focus and clarity that the 2 mica has. The more I listen to it, the more I like it. Norah Jones and Nick Drake has never sounded better.

[Parkfly]

Ozark Tom,

The RCA 6189 JRC black plate I am using is a two mica.
Yes, getting that killer mid range tonality and warmth AND with the more
analytical sound at the same time is what I'm after. I used to think I couldn't
have both, but the Sensation with the Dodd tube buffer is making anything possible!

Looking forward to what you hear with the new tubes you have coming in.

[Mariusz]

I wondered if everyone was getting bored with my tube rolling.

Actually, your thoughts about different tubes used with Sensation are very entertaining.
Looking forward to your other comparisons.

Mariusz

[Parkfly]

Mariusz, can you give us an update on your tube rollin?
You had an interesting combination of tube types.

[Mariusz]

Mariusz, can you give us an update on your tube rollin?
You had an interesting combination of tube types.

1st was Mullard and now it is Amperex
And..... after 1.5 week of listening to each tube.....I like Mullard better.
Have a lot more to listen to but that is when I will be back from my vacation.

But I also enjoy non tube Sensation with my Martin Logans.

I also tried some OB 15" Audio Nirvana but it had way too much gain.

(it takes 10 miles to reach the highest point in order to get some phone reception. Please understand if my respond is a bit slow.)

Mariusz

[OzarkTom]

GE 3 mica 5751 vs. Tung-sol 5751

Nice sounding tube, the Tung-sol is very cleam and focused. More on the analytical side, a little thin in the bass department. If your system is sounding too warm, the Tung-sol would be a good choice. I prefer the GE on this comparison. The GE vocals have me hynotized.

GE 3 mica 5751 vs. #1 RCA 2 mica black plate
No comparison here. The GE blew the RCA away. The RCA sounded flat and very lifeless. The tone was nice, but just could not open up like I thought it would. I would rate this as the worst of the 5751 tubes, big disappointment.

GE 3 mica 5751 vs. #2 RCA 2 mica black plate
Well, since I received two of these RCA's, I had to give it another chance. What would you say if I told you this RCA has the highest soundstage, the most forward soundstage, as wide as the GE in width of soundstage. It is also as warm sounding as the GE 3 mica circa 1958 5751, but the RCA has better focus and detail, especiially with vocals than the GE has. Magic but with focus and detail, it will be hard to find a better sound. It also has the best bass of the lot. Maybe #1 was just a bad tube?

Excuse me while I go and re-listen to all my music with this RCA. RCA 5751 is now my top tube. Parkfly, I am now a RCA man too.

[marvda1]

anyone tried the tung sol reissue ecc803s ?  or the gold lion reissue ecc83 ?

[CSI]

1st was Mullard and now it is Amperex
And..... after 1.5 week of listening to each tube.....I like Mullard better.
Have a lot more to listen to but that is when I will be back from my vacation.

But I also enjoy non tube Sensation with my Martin Logans.

I also tried some OB 15" Audio Nirvana but it had way too much gain.

(it takes 10 miles to reach the highest point in order to get some phone reception. Please understand if my respond is a bit slow.)

Mariusz

Hi Mariusz,

Hope you enjoyed your vacation. Was the Mullard you settled on a 12AU7 or 12AX7? I'm asking because I just ordered my Sensation and when I get around to tube rolling I have three Mullard CV4003/12AU7's in my collection that I thought I would try. Seth lists both types as OK for use in the buffer.

[Mariusz]

Thanks......one more week to go

It was AU but hold your horses.........put some Bugle Boy in and it sounds best so far.
5 more to go.


****************************************************************************


My Sensation came with standard caps.
Where can I find info on how to replace caps in Virtue amps and which caps are recommended?

Mariusz

[CSI]

Thanks. Staying tuned for the full round of tube rolling and looking forward to trying a few of my own.

[Cheerwino]

Perhaps this has been covered before or I'm just dim, but at what stage is the Dodd buffer in the Sensation? 

Mainly I wonder if the buffer is part of the signal path when using the preamp out (yeah, I know, like someone would be crazy enough to do that, but hey, it's there!) 

I'm not a technical type, so those photos of the innards just look like a neatly arranged parts drawer to me.

Thanks!

[brother love]

Yippeee!   

Order #2142 here:  M-451 & Piano M1 complete w/ tube buffer & full Sonicap upgrades

Utilizing the Dream Machine Design tool & Gorgeous gear thread, I chose: 

Aviator face w/ Cloud sides & buttons, Aluminum columns & Zebra tops

I showed my wife the various options, & she loved the look of the final product.

So for WAF my friends, the config tool & pics are deal closers!   

Listen to the Patty Larkin CD, "Regrooving the Dream". You will not believe your ears on this combo you are getting.

I did make one improvement on the Piano, but I forgot the name. I bought a power cord for $19.95 at the Audio Adviser. It was a short cord but thick, .5 meter. 1 meter is $29.95. That made a very nice improvement for the money.

Thanks Ozark Tom for the recommend, I will definitely check it out.  Your tube rollin adventures have been of great interest, I will be participating down the road. 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14
Is this the power cord you used w/ the Piano, or is it the C7 connector version?  I've ordered a lot of stuff thru the years from Wayne- Audio Advisor.

[OzarkTom]

It is the AC14 version. The .5 meter went up $5, but the 1 meter stayed the same price. Quality of that cable is very high, and sound improvement is very obvious.

[tenantman]

Thanks for your "shoot out " observation.
I am planing to have some fun tube rolling as well.
Got a whole bunch of old stock 12s laying around.

P.S
I recieved few inquiries about differences and similarities between RWA and Sensation with battery power supply (as well as tube buffer - which, I am unable to answer at this point).

So, without any editing (except the name of the other party) here is the copy of an email regarding these two components:


" Hello *****

It has been a while but
it is always great to hear from you.
As you know, we were able to orginized Virtue Audio tour which includes various amps and upcoming Piano M-1 tour.
Virtue amps are somewhat similar to RWA as far as technology is concern but the sound characteristics are quite the opposite.
While RWA is voiced to emphasize the middle range qualities - trying to resemble some of the qualities found in SET amps.... Sensation is brute in regards to resolution, bottom end dynamics. 
One of RWA attributes is the ability to make the most horrible recordings listenable.
Virtue on the other hand sounds crappy with some bad recordings but good stuff sounds great and great stuff sound even better.
Basicly, it will show every flaw on the track and in your system.
Top end and bottom end is excellent. The only shortcoming is in my opinion lock of the middle range liquidity which I am so used to with my SET amp.
But that is the stock Sensation amp.
Batteries do help a little...... in the way that it lets more subtle details and ambiance become more effortless and audible.
For the money - it is great as it is but........
When I was almost ready to pull the trigger on Sensation M-451, Seth informed me of upcoming upgrade which would inclued Dodd Audio tube buffer stage (pre-section). Now, I am not sure how it will change the sound but from my experiance with Dodd Audio (used to own his top of the line preamp) it should be really good. 
I am hopping that Dodd Audio buffer is the missing link in Seth's design.
It just might give me that extra liquidity I was looking for in original Sensation amp.
We will find out soon enough as I will recieve one of the first units later this week.
If you like, I have one Sensation with battery supply ...... If you want to give it a shot. If you like it, I can later loan you the new Sensation with battery power supply and tube buffer.

Let me know

Cheers
Mariusz " 
 

Recently, RWA announced a new tube stage and new battery (LFP-V Edition) for all their products. If there is anyone willing to do another comparison and post here it will be appreciated. As a RWA owner, this thread discussion is a lot more exciting read and promises high return for the money. I plan on "pulling the trigger".  Love the customizing finishes presented by Seth and company.

If anyone has the Aviator/cloud face finish with carbon-fibre top, please, please go ahead and show it off.

Regards,
Lou

[roscoeiii]

Lou,

If you are looking for an RWA comparison or discussion of the exciting new features (tubes and a new battery system) just announced, you might be better off posting in the RWA circle.

[virtue]

Guys,
I don't want any comparisons with RWA in these forums --  ever.  Vinnie produces brilliant products and he delivers the best customer service in the business.  If you can afford his stuff, buy it.
Thank you for respecting my wishes.
Seth

[audo]

I also would like to know whether the pre-outs are tube buffered. Thanks