[SoundGame]

Gotta watch those mods, G. Esoteric, for example, is quite clear that if their product is modded in any way, they will not only immediately and completely void your warranty, they will also to refuse to offer service of any type to the modded unit outside of warranty as well. They suggest you take the unit back to whoever modified it for any future service as they won't touch it.

D.D.

Oh, I have no interest in modding - I was just curious given Anonamemouse's comments why there are no modders out there for Bryston - and what specifically he thinks could be improved. 

[SHV]

"I was just curious given Anonamemouse's comments why there are no modders out there for Bryston "
*********
Probably because most Bryston owner are sentient beings.  Who in their right mind would void a 20 year warranty to have some guy working out of his garage replace a cap that may have cost $6 for one that costs $9 or install Vishay resistors that cost $2.50 and charge $1500.

Steve

[Anonamemouse]

Oh, I have no interest in modding - I was just curious given Anonamemouse's comments why there are no modders out there for Bryston - and what specifically he thinks could be improved.

I am not an engineer, I am road crew.
But I do know someone that is an engineer who actually knows what he is doing, and he will most likely find a few things that can be improved. Since I have a grey market amp (almost 40% cheaper that way) I have no warranty anyway, so modding mine is within the possibilities.

As an example, the powersupply can definitely be improved, 180 Watts at idle is just ridiculous. The Momentum Monoblock Amplifier by Dan D’Agostino only uses ONE Watt on idle. Me thinks there is an area where Bryston can improve a whole lot...

[Diamond Dog]

"I was just curious given Anonamemouse's comments why there are no modders out there for Bryston "
*********
...Bryston owner are sentient beings. 
Steve

Hey, speak for yourself, buddy....   But seriously, folks, there are Bryston modders out there and there are folks who get their Brystons modded. I remember reading a review on one of the big boys - 14B or 28B - where the reviewer discussed the positive ( in his mind at least ) changes to the unit's sound after a specific mod was performed on it and I have seen others discuss that same mod on other forums.  I'm sure James and crew have seen some stuff come in the door that's been fooled with...
I've seen ads for Esoteric gear where the seller is touting the mods that he's had performed. I suspect TEAC-Esoteric took a hard line with these guys after getting sick of having less-than-sucessful mods coming limping home for service.
I'm not saying all mods are bad but you'd have to be either utterly confident in the modder or a man who can afford to lose a sizable bet to take a chance like that with high-end gear. There's a guy in my city who represents himself  as a "modder" but he probably has to wear oven mitts while he works on gear because he doesn't know which end of a soldering gun to hang on to. I've heard nothing but horror stories about this guy - total butcher.
 
D.D.

[SoundGame]

Yes, there are surely butchers out there and then there are companies that have established themselves, like ModWright, who have supposedly achieved higher levels of performance by modding with a performance before cost mentality.  Also Soundsmith.

[Diamond Dog]

I am not an engineer, I am road crew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irmbpp1-qMs

 
D.D.

[larevoj]

Hmm...I know this is off the topic but since we are at it...I did thought of modding my BP26+MPS2 with Paul Hynes (meaning shipping it to UK and get it done professionally). I canned the idea due to potential warranty issues though PH do provide warranty for his mods but when sh** hits the fence (like it or not it does happen from time to time) things can get messy very quickly.

So in the end I just decided to move on and find alternatives to meet my needs. There are always room for improvements but I prefer pragmatic approach. Its one thing to change/upgrade power cords, fuses, interconnects, RCA/XLR caps, and sort out isolations/vibration issues but a different ball game when you need to pull out a soldering iron.

[Anonamemouse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irmbpp1-qMs

 
D.D.

Yep, I am one of those... Working at the Deep Purple goes classical show in Arnhem today. Soundcheck is right now.

[sfraser]

Hmm...I know this is off the topic but since we are at it...I did thought of modding my BP26+MPS2 with Paul Hynes (meaning shipping it to UK and get it done professionally). I canned the idea due to potential warranty issues though PH do provide warranty for his mods but when sh** hits the fence (like it or not it does happen from time to time) things can get messy very quickly.

So in the end I just decided to move on and find alternatives to meet my needs. There are always room for improvements but I prefer pragmatic approach. Its one thing to change/upgrade power cords, fuses, interconnects, RCA/XLR caps, and sort out isolations/vibration issues but a different ball game when you need to pull out a soldering iron.

Totally agree. While i will guess it's certainly possible that a Bryston owner could have internal design changes implemented  which improve the product for their particular setup, i would have to think the law of diminishing returns  would come into effect with a vengeance. What I mean by that is that Bryston products, (in my opinion) are Engineered to be the best they possibly can be, not the best they can be at a certain price point. Now I am sure someone is Peterborough is keeping an eye on design/build cost, but my guess is they would rather push the retail price up to keep their margin,, than build an inferior product to meet a build cost point. Assuming the above is true, then you have a team of Engineers who have been tweaking and fiddling for a very long time on a product such as the 4B amp. Have they found component and design improvements, absolutely, but the man hours involved are likely huge to do so. Compare this with a product such as my Logitech Squeezebox which is definitely built to meet a low price point, modding should be easier, and more cost effective for the end user.

I do believe Bryston used to offer an engineering service if you have particular requests for a product. Speaking of which, I have a BP-25 that for some reason does not have a headphone plug 

[larevoj]

Speaking of which, I have a BP-25 that for some reason does not have a headphone plug 

Time to shop for a BHP-1 

[Anonamemouse]

What I mean by that is that Bryston products, (in my opinion) are Engineered to be the best they possibly can be, not the best they can be at a certain price point.

I disagree here. If this were the case Bryston would have two amplifiers, a consumer one and a professional one.

Have they found component and design improvements, absolutely, but the man hours involved are likely huge to do so. Compare this with a product such as my Logitech Squeezebox which is definitely built to meet a low price point, modding should be easier, and more cost effective for the end user.

Indeed. It would simply be too expensive to do the ultimate research.
Which is why companies like Oppo implement modifications done by users. They don't spend millions of dollars on research themselves, they simply ask around and check what modifications have been done, and if they indeed improve the product, they are implemented! Saves a lot of time and money!
Also modders frequently take the road not traveled at all, new insights sometimes are needed to achieve goals never suspected...

Maybe James can throw in some input here?

[James Tanner]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hi Folks,

We have over the forty years or so that we have been doing this have and continue to look for ways to improve the product. By improve I mean reduce as many of the know distortions as possible and make the amplification stage as linear as possible and as reliable as possible. 

The main problem is that the science requires that an improvement be repeatable and measurable. I recognize that some aspects of the listening experience are not necessarily quantifiable but over the years we have found that reducing distortions (especially IM and HD) and increasing noise floors pays huge dividends in attaining the neutrality goal.

The problem with a lot of the ‘mods’ is that they do not take into account the changes that may or may not occur in other sections of the circuitry as a result of that change. I have seen mods where the capacitor gets changed for instance and the value is just slightly off what it should be or the eddy currents between the different components get altered in a negative way. Even the layout of the circuit boards and where one component is relative to another component can shift the performance in a negative direction – (good example is ground issues). So we are always looking for improvements and we are always learning but you have to be very careful and not assume there is some kind of magic bullet where all gets ‘fixed’ because some exotic part is used. Over the years a number of people have sent us designs (looking for royalties) or modified versions of our gear and some we have even hired and brought to the factory for a few months in order for them to prove their designs but honestly very few actually pan out as an improvement.

On the other hand I have been an audiophile most of my life and there are some things I hear when we make changes that do not necessarily show up at the tech level.

James

PS –By the way if you make changes to a Brytson component it is still covered by warranty as long as that change did not cause the failure.

[SoundGame]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hi Folks,

We have over the forty years or so that we have been doing this have and continue to look for ways to improve the product. By improve I mean reduce as many of the know distortions as possible and make the amplification stage as linear as possible and as reliable as possible. 

The main problem is that the science requires that an improvement be repeatable and measurable. I recognize that some aspects of the listening experience are not necessarily quantifiable but over the years we have found that reducing distortions (especially IM and HD) and increasing noise floors pays huge dividends in attaining the neutrality goal.

The problem with a lot of the ‘mods’ is that they do not take into account the changes that may or may not occur in other sections of the circuitry as a result of that change. I have seen mods where the capacitor gets changed for instance and the value is just slightly off what it should be or the eddy currents between the different components get altered in a negative way. Even the layout of the circuit boards and where one component is relative to another component can shift the performance in a negative direction – (good example is ground issues). So we are always looking for improvements and we are always learning but you have to be very careful and not assume there is some kind of magic bullet where all gets ‘fixed’ because some exotic part is used. Over the years a number of people have sent us designs (looking for royalties) or modified versions of our gear and some we have even hired and brought to the factory for a few months in order for them to prove their designs but honestly very few actually pan out as an improvement.

On the other hand I have been an audiophile most of my life and there are some things I hear when we make changes that do not necessarily show up at the tech level.

James

PS –By the way if you make changes to a Brytson component it is still covered by warranty as long as that change did not cause the failure.

Very helpful note James - makes clear that there are other considerations besides exotic parts.  Your P.S. not is almost unbelieveable....don't know any companies that would stick by their products where a consumer makes a modification. 

[PRELUDE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irmbpp1-qMs

 
D.D.

Hey, speak for yourself, buddy....   But seriously, folks, there are Bryston modders out there and there are folks who get their Brystons modded. I remember reading a review on one of the big boys - 14B or 28B - where the reviewer discussed the positive ( in his mind at least ) changes to the unit's sound after a specific mod was performed on it and I have seen others discuss that same mod on other forums.  I'm sure James and crew have seen some stuff come in the door that's been fooled with...
I've seen ads for Esoteric gear where the seller is touting the mods that he's had performed. I suspect TEAC-Esoteric took a hard line with these guys after getting sick of having less-than-sucessful mods coming limping home for service.
I'm not saying all mods are bad but you'd have to be either utterly confident in the modder or a man who can afford to lose a sizable bet to take a chance like that with high-end gear. There's a guy in my city who represents himself  as a "modder" but he probably has to wear oven mitts while he works on gear because he doesn't know which end of a soldering gun to hang on to. I've heard nothing but horror stories about this guy - total butcher.
 
D.D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKzyOMaXMRY
 

[alexone]

...a 875HT amp...

...in combination with the SP2...

...this setup has enough power to drive the 3 white frontspeakers (and 2 in the back, not shown)


cool gear for the sleeping room!!

al.

[SoundGame]

Nice alexone.  Very clean look.
 
What type of speakers are you using?
Are you bridging the channels in the 875HT for the fronts?
If this is the bedroom set - what's your full HT setup???  Cheers.

[sfraser]

Very nice setup alexone. i will make sure my wife does not see it.....less there be a stack of my existing components sitting at the curb when I get home!

[alexone]

thanks, Soundgame!

the (discontinued) speakers are Canton 1050. in general used as a center but they do a good job as a stereo set. nice style as i think. the channels are not bridged yet as i want to try the amp later with bridged power (to see if i really need it...). i believe the 875 has 125 wpc/4ohm channels not bridged.

my setup in the living room is BDP, BDA, BCD, BP 1.5, BP 26 and a wonderful 4B SST C- Series. TT is Acoustic Signature 'Final Tool' and the speakers are selfmade. TV is Philips 52 PFL 5605. for recordings i use the Korg MR 2000 which is able to do MHz recordings.
you can take a look at my gallery if you want

al.

[alexone]

Very nice setup alexone. i will make sure my wife does not see it.....less there be a stack of my existing components sitting at the curb when I get home!

thanx, Sfraser! to have two Bryston-systems is a blessing

al.

[SoundGame]

thanks, Soundgame!

the (discontinued) speakers are Canton 1050. in general used as a center but they do a good job as a stereo set. nice style as i think. the channels are not bridged yet as i want to try the amp later with bridged power (to see if i really need it...). i believe the 875 has 125 wpc/4ohm channels not bridged.

my setup in the living room is BDP, BDA, BCD, BP 1.5, BP 26 and a wonderful 4B SST C- Series. TT is Acoustic Signature 'Final Tool' and the speakers are selfmade. TV is Philips 52 PFL 5605. for recordings i use the Korg MR 2000 which is able to do MHz recordings.
you can take a look at my gallery if you want

al.

Very nice 2-ch rig.  Great work on those speakers - lovely lines - quite complex angles to get right.  You must have great woodworking talent and tools.