Salk at Capital AudioFest

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ricmon

Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #20 on: 14 Jun 2010, 07:15 pm »
One last thing.  Jim needs to seriously consider his source.  There was absolutely no extended  highs or blooming mid range at all and a little toe in may have helped sound staging.


DMurphy

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #21 on: 14 Jun 2010, 08:03 pm »
I don't believe Grapevine makes speakers--just amps.  Do you recall which speakers were being demonstrated?

ctviggen

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #22 on: 14 Jun 2010, 09:00 pm »
One last thing.  Jim needs to seriously consider his source.  There was absolutely no extended  highs or blooming mid range at all and a little toe in may have helped sound staging.

What's a "blooming" mid-range?  That sounds bad to me, but I don't know what the term means. 

avahifi

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #23 on: 14 Jun 2010, 09:00 pm »
Hey ricman, after the next review comes out I suspect you will seriously reconsider suggesting that Jim Salk "seriously considers his source."  :)

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

newzooreview

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #24 on: 14 Jun 2010, 09:06 pm »
My impression like other was that the sound was disappointing.  But what gets me is that other rooms with similar challenges had better sound.  I must admit that the Salk speakers just didn't rise to the level I had anticipated.  what I'm getting at is that even thought others vendors complained about the bright rooms (Grape Vine Audion for one and btw had one of the BEST sounding rooms at the show) you could still gauge the potential of the speaker leaving you with the impression there was more to gain from them.  The Salks just didn't have that effect on me.

You quoted me, but I don't think the sound from the Salk speakers was disappointing. :scratch: The room was a big challenge, certainly. In fact it was by far the most difficult room in the place. The only other room that large was on the opposite side of the mansion's entryway, but it had more carpeting and soft furniture and had a different shape--not the big long cavern of the Salk room. All of the other rooms were significantly smaller in my recollection, and the speakers and seating were much closer so that the listener had a much better chance of hearing the sound directly from the speakers before room reflections started to dominate.

Given the obvious limitations of the room it seems a stretch to pin any specific deficiencies on source components. I've heard an AVA DAC fed by a standard transport through SongTowers and the SoundScapes, and neither high-frequency extension or mid range clarity was a problem. I've always understood mid-range "bloom" to be associated with the particular (and sometimes pleasing) distortion that some tube amps produce. Elimination of distortions, however, is an AVA (and Salk) design goal.

catastrofe

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #25 on: 14 Jun 2010, 11:59 pm »
My impression like other was that the sound was disappointing.  But what gets me is that other rooms with similar challenges had better sound.  I must admit that the Salk speakers just didn't rise to the level I had anticipated.  what I'm getting at is that even thought others vendors complained about the bright rooms (Grape Vine Audion for one and btw had one of the BEST sounding rooms at the show) you could still gauge the potential of the speaker leaving you with the impression there was more to gain from them.  The Salks just didn't have that effect on me.

This logic (can you call it logic?) is completely lost on me.  How about anyone else?

GMoney78

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #26 on: 15 Jun 2010, 12:20 am »
I think people should be more respectful of unpopular/lukewarm opinions of Salks, no one speaker if for everyone.

Now onto something more important, my opinion.  Regarding the Soundscapes, the dynamics, clarity, soundstage, and the way the speakers completely disappeared from the room was just so above and beyond what I've heard before, I was left speechless.  Ridiculous.

DMurphy

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #27 on: 15 Jun 2010, 12:40 am »
I think people should be more respectful of unpopular/lukewarm opinions of Salks, no one speaker if for everyone.

Now onto something more important, my opinion.  Regarding the Soundscapes, the dynamics, clarity, soundstage, and the way the speakers completely disappeared from the room was just so above and beyond what I've heard before, I was left speechless.  Ridiculous.

Hi   I'm glad you liked the speaks, and I also agree that we shouldn't jump on anyone who didn't hear what we heard.  I'm really not apologizing for the sound in any way--that was one big hog room, and it made vocals very difficult as I think you can understand, but at the same time all that space above and behind the speakers made for some very dramatic presentations--particularly on organ, brass, and Big Bass Drums. 

rahimlee54

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #28 on: 15 Jun 2010, 12:50 am »
Hey ricman, after the next review comes out I suspect you will seriously reconsider suggesting that Jim Salk "seriously considers his source."  :)

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Which speaker was reviewed?  Wish I could have made the show.

coke

Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #29 on: 15 Jun 2010, 01:06 am »
Hi   I'm glad you liked the speaks, and I also agree that we shouldn't jump on anyone who didn't hear what we heard.  I'm really not apologizing for the sound in any way--that was one big hog room, and it made vocals very difficult as I think you can understand, but at the same time all that space above and behind the speakers made for some very dramatic presentations--particularly on organ, brass, and Big Bass Drums.

I actually enjoy reading negative things about Salk speakers and AVA gear.  To me at least, it makes all the positive reviews that much more credible :)

I've listened to a lot of speakers, and Salks are the only ones I've found that I truly enjoy. Obviously there isn't one "best" speaker, but I think I've been lucky enough to find the manufacturer who is "best" for me.   :D  After owning my HT2-TLs, I wouldn't even hesitate to buy the Soundscapes without hearing them if I was looking to upgrade.   I guess it's largely thanks to Dennis, but the Salk sound perfectly matches my taste.

R Swerdlow

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #30 on: 15 Jun 2010, 01:18 am »
Jim or Swerd -

Was the Thai meal courtesy of Thai Basil in Chantilly? I know its a fair ways from Swerd's house, but it is well known across the country for having great Thai food (it was also featured on Food Network).

We ate Thai food at Benjarong http://www.benjarongthairestaurant.com/, a place nearby the Glenview Mansion in Rockville.

I have to agree with the others who thought the room had a lot to do with the disappointing sound.  It had very high ceilings, marble floors, and all the walls and ceilings were plaster.  Not only was that room very large, it was empty of furniture.  All those hard surfaces had an effect that I thought was quite different from the other rooms of the mansion, large or small, which had much lower ceilings, wooden floors, furnishings, and curtains.

I've heard Salk speakers including the SoundScapes in a variety of other rooms, and none of them were like the room at the Glenview mansion.  That room had the ambiance more like a railroad station or a cathedral than any room in a private home.

So to respond to the person who voiced the lukewarm or unpopular opinions, I respect your impressions.  I think you described what I heard too.  But I urge you to listen to Salk speakers again under different conditions before you make those your settled opinions.

cujobob

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #31 on: 15 Jun 2010, 02:11 am »
That room doesn't appear to be perfect, but it's not the worst room I've ever seen.  I think a good speaker design should work in as many rooms as possible, too.  With that said, I've heard the Salk lineup and have always come away impressed with their value...at their pricepoints, I think they're some of the best finished products around.

Getting a realistic feel for their performance in a variety of surroundings is good for potential customers.  We don't all have perfect rooms and understanding spouses (regarding room treatments/placement).

jsalk

Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #32 on: 15 Jun 2010, 02:13 am »
Which speaker was reviewed?

A well-regarded audio magazine (print) will print a review of the SongTowers coupled with AVA's new Ultravalve tube amp.  No other information can be made available until after the magazine is shipped, which should be toward the end of the month.

- Jim

DMurphy

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #33 on: 15 Jun 2010, 03:16 am »
We ate Thai food at Benjarong http://www.benjarongthairestaurant.com/, a place nearby the Glenview Mansion in Rockville.

I have to agree with the others who thought the room had a lot to do with the disappointing sound.  It had very high ceilings, marble floors, and all the walls and ceilings were plaster.  Not only was that room very large, it was empty of furniture.  All those hard surfaces had an effect that I thought was quite different from the other rooms of the mansion, large or small, which had much lower ceilings, wooden floors, furnishings, and curtains.

I've heard Salk speakers including the SoundScapes in a variety of other rooms, and none of them were like the room at the Glenview mansion.  That room had the ambiance more like a railroad station or a cathedral than any room in a private home.

So to respond to the person who voiced the lukewarm or unpopular opinions, I respect your impressions.  I think you described what I heard too.  But I urge you to listen to Salk speakers again under different conditions before you make those your settled opinions.

Swerdlow heard the speaks on Friday after we (which includes Swerdlow--many thanks) had first set them up, and before we had analyzed exactly where the problem areas were, and what types of music were most affected.  By Sunday, I think the speakers spoke for themselves.  If our negative reviewer heard them on Sunday, then all I can say is that you don't like Salk speakers.  It wasn't the room (and certainly not Frank's great Ultravalve amp).


Mudslide

Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #35 on: 15 Jun 2010, 04:32 am »
My impression like other was that the sound was disappointing.  But what gets me is that other rooms with similar challenges had better sound.  I must admit that the Salk speakers just didn't rise to the level I had anticipated.  what I'm getting at is that even thought others vendors complained about the bright rooms (Grape Vine Audion for one and btw had one of the BEST sounding rooms at the show) you could still gauge the potential of the speaker leaving you with the impression there was more to gain from them.  The Salks just didn't have that effect on me.

Comparing different gear in different rooms?    :nono:

Apples, meet oranges.


Nuance

Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #36 on: 15 Jun 2010, 01:52 pm »
To answer the easy question first, yes--you should listen to the ST's on the tweeter axis.  The two woofs will start to cancel each other in the upper midrange if you don't.  Ideally, the tweeter probably should be a little higher, but there's only so much you can do in an MTM without making the cabinet too tall for the width--both from an aesthetic and stability standpoint. 

And ideally, the tweeter should be a little lower on the SoundScape.  Again, aesthetics come into play.  But the SS's are much less sensitive to listening axis than an MTM.  Nothing horrible will happen if your ears happen to end up at the bottom of the tweeter or a little lower.  A little dip will start to develop at the crossover point, but I think it would only be audible on pink or white noise. 
I missed this reply somehow.  Thank you, Dennis.

Nuance

Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #37 on: 15 Jun 2010, 01:59 pm »
Comparing different gear in different rooms?    :nono:

Apples, meet oranges.


Bingo.  Those who claim to be able to discern differences in gear and speakers in many different bad rooms must possess super-human hearing.  Its not even close to an apples to apples comparison, nor is it wise to do IMO, as you will hear more room than speakers.  To each their own.

ricmon

Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #38 on: 15 Jun 2010, 02:54 pm »
Hey ricman, after the next review comes out I suspect you will seriously reconsider suggesting that Jim Salk "seriously considers his source."  :)

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

I don't think it's AVA electronics.  May be it's the choice of music, the file format........ :dunno:

randybessinger

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Re: Salk at Capital AudioFest
« Reply #39 on: 15 Jun 2010, 04:07 pm »
I don't think it's AVA electronics.  May be it's the choice of music, the file format........ :dunno:
I see you live in DC.  Have you been to Dennis's to check out the speakers in a more favorable room or at least to confirm your first impressions?