Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!

Phil A · « **Reply #340 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 04:03 am »

Well I swapped the BDP-93 from the bedroom system (was a good dusting opportunity anyway

) and I did not try every combination but I could not get it to work with the Port-ta/Monoprice de-embedder in the same manner as the BDP-83 works. I tried a bunch of different settings and had the de-embedder on the HDMI 2 output. I even tried setting the BDP-93 so HDMI 2 was the primary output. So perhaps (I did not try it) it needs a handshake with the BDP-93? I'd be curious if anyone else has been able to use a de-embedder with the newer Oppos without the handshake. For me with the BDP-83, it's nice when I want to hear SACD that I don't need the handshake. Unhooking the HDMI cable into the de-embedder and hooking up one to the Integra 9.8 to watch a Blu-Ray is not that big a deal as the area is very easy to get to.

Marius · « **Reply #341 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 09:42 am »

HI!,

Just getting familiar with all the new options and problems...
would this be your Port-ta box: http://www.port-ta.com/products/203.html? Couldn't find the modelnumber in the topic-thread. I'd use it for DVD-A and SACD audio. Does SACD audio go through the hdmi? Never realized that before.

Greetings,
Marius

Quote from: Phil A on 23 Aug 2010, 11:42 pm

PS - I talked a friend into getting the Port-ta box which he just received and he told me Monoprice has the same box with their name on it and I looked at their site and it looks identical - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

Phil A · « **Reply #342 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 11:30 am »

Quote from: Marius on 20 Jun 2011, 09:42 am

HI!,

Just getting familiar with all the new options and problems...
would this be your Port-ta box: http://www.port-ta.com/products/203.html? Couldn't find the modelnumber in the topic-thread. I'd use it for DVD-A and SACD audio. Does SACD audio go through the hdmi? Never realized that before.

Greetings,
Marius

The model number and that link are in the thread. It's a long thread though. Port-ta makes the Monoprice box as well which is here:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

I have both of them and they are identical. I use one in the main system (with a Bryston DAC) and one in the basement system with an Emotiva DAC. I have a (modded) Oppo BDP-83 in the main system and an old Oppo DV980H in the basement system. Here are pictures I previously posted of the Port-ta and Monoprice boxes:

dwk · « **Reply #343 on:** 23 Jun 2011, 01:21 pm »

Okay, I tried going through the thread for insight on my problem, but without a search-within-thread feature it's tough.

I'm running an Oppo 981HD into an Atlona 570, then optical output to a Behringer SRC2496 which is slaved to the word clock of my audio interface (Steinberg MR816 set to either 44.1 or 88.2 in my tests). I'm doing this because I run fixed-rate DSP crossovers on the pc and need to normalize to a single sample rate. Monitor is an Acer 1080p w/ hdmi input.

I'm 99% certain that when I first hooked it up, the SRC2496 showed 88.2k for the input rate for SACD as expected. After reconfiguring and recabling, I'm now showing 44.1. This occurs regardless of whether the word clock is set to 44.1 or 88.2. I *think* I have the configuration exactly the same as it was originally, but I guess it's possible that I switched something up.

This is occurring even on non-hybrid SACD-only discs, so it doesn't seem to be a problem with picking the redbook layer.

So, my question is whether there is any valid handshake scenario that would result in the Oppo sending PCM over HDMI but down-rezing to 44.1. It seems to me that the only way this could happen is if the EDID info indicated that the device was limited to 44.1, but since the Atlona is in the loop I didn't think this should happen.

My suspicion is actually that the Oppo is outputting 88.2 but that the SRC2496 is failing to lock at full rate and is instead locking at half-rate (the 8420 SRC chip used in the Behringer gear is known to have issues over 48k, but I was hoping that it was going to work), but it seems worth exploring whether there is a potential problem in the HDMI setup.

If I can't figure this out the next step is to send the optical output from the Atlona straight to the audio interface and slave to the incoming optical signal and see what happens. This isn't really an ideal situation since it means having multiple configurations in my audio processing stack and manually switching based on sample rate, but it should confirm where the problem lies.

The only other standalone SRC unit that will slave to a word clock that I've been able to find is $800, so if the Behringer doesn't work I've either facing shelling out for the better unit, or having to manually switch configurations for each source - neither of which is particularly attractive. Blah.

Aleg · « **Reply #344 on:** 23 Jun 2011, 01:51 pm »

I myself don't use the Atlona but the Octava and I don't know the Atlona.

But I wonder if the Atlona has been modified to work outside the HDMI specs, because if I understand correctly normally an HDMI device should check with attached HDMI devices what the highest resolution is they can process. The Atlona as a switch would normally only pass on the request and the reply between both devices.

So my guess would be that it needs to have that succesfull handshake first with a high-res capable device.

Did you ever had it connected to a high-res capable hdmi devices in the past to let it complete the handshake?

The Octava I use has a modified firmware chip that causes it not to pass on the handshake request (at least for the audio IIUC) but process it against its own EDID chip. I modded the EDID chip to suit my own requirements.

-
aleg

dwk · « **Reply #345 on:** 23 Jun 2011, 03:05 pm »

Well, I guess that is a bit interesting. I was pretty sure it originally worked at 88.2 which implied that the audio handshake was working somewhere. However, when going through my monitor menus the volume control was greyed out - apparently my particular model doesn't have speakers, so I'm not sure what capabilities would be negotiated.

Fortunately I happened to have a Panny XR57 in the rack, and was able to loop through that. Voila - 88.2k, and based on 5 minutes of playing the SRC2496 seems to lock just fine (although it's only outputting 44.1 since I reconfigured in a debugging attempt). (Straight, No Chaser sounds pretty darn good even resampled down to 44.1)

So, I guess I'll have to see whether the Atlona will remember once it's initialized, or whether I'll have to keep the receiver in the loop for now.

Thanks for the suggestion, Aleg.

Phil A · « **Reply #346 on:** 11 Jul 2011, 12:03 am »

I went to the Capital Audiofest the last couple of days (capitalaudiofest.com). One the rooms was everythingaudio.net. I had a discussion with John Gatski, about de-embedders. He does have an Atlona and also an Oppo Player and has had a variety of players with it. He happened to have one of these - http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equipment/Audio-Signal-Conversion/DaySequerra/ADAC-2.xhtml?ATI-ADAC-2

He uses it with the optical out just to read bit depth (and he said the DAC is not bad but he does not use it - has a Benchmark so he may use the headphone out on occasion and uses it primarily to test bit depth). He advised that the Sony players only do 16 bit. So those of you with a Sony are only getting 16/176.4.

jamesg11 · « **Reply #347 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 02:54 am »

Here in Oz, it's accepted the Sony s370 gives 16/ with optical - but, for example, "SACD playback with the player option set to LPCM via the HDMI output is 24 bit/176.4kHz from the Port-ta's coaxial digital output."
Has this group measured the coax dig out?

Phil A · « **Reply #348 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 03:06 am »

I am not sure of the particulars but the unit he uses to measure does have a coax input. I'd assume (but can't be sure) that he measured it with the coax input. At the Capital Audiofest I also spoke to the Integra rep who was using a closed-out Integra DPS 6.9 into the big pre/pro. This is a DVD universal player. I did read the manual and it does indicate it can output 176.4kHz. There is less than 100 left in their warehouse. I ordered one from my local dealer (with tax and shipping was a few dollars over $300). I figured I could always find a place for it somewhere and it is not a horrible price. If I find it works with the de-embedder, I may drop John Gatski a line and since he is local to me see if I can bring over the Integra and see what it outputs. If so, I can talk to him more. I personally could not get the Sony to work without a handshake and I thought it did not sound as good as the Oppo.

jjc1 · « **Reply #349 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 04:00 pm »

Quote from: rbbert on 15 Jun 2011, 02:00 am

I just wanted to confirm what has already been reported for the cheap little Monoprice box; with the Oppo as a source, it will de-embed SACD or DVD-A (DVD-V and CD too, if you want) without being hooked up to a HDMI receiver, just the Oppo as a source.

I can't get my Oppo/Monoprice combo to de-embed CD..it works fine de-embeding SACD and DVD-A. Is there a setting I'm missing in the Oppo menu?

ted_b · « **Reply #350 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: jjc1 on 13 Jul 2011, 04:00 pm

I can't get my Oppo/Monoprice combo to de-embed CD..it works fine de-embeding SACD and DVD-A. Is there a setting I'm missing in the Oppo menu?

Oppo handles DVD-A and cd both just fine via its own optical or coax. No reason to de-embed. My de-embedding thread is meant for SACD and Blu-Ray, both highly protected (up until recently. as you know I now rip SACD to DSDIFF

) hirez formats only available via HDMI. CD is available anywhere digital outs are seen, and in the case of Oppo, and documented here quite a few times, DVD-Audio is available via Oppo's digital outs too.

jamesg11 · « **Reply #351 on:** 14 Jul 2011, 02:03 am »

Ripping sacd to dsdiff - is there mac anything yet to achieve this? The obvious way to go, when it's possible.

ted_b · « **Reply #352 on:** 14 Jul 2011, 02:19 am »

Quote from: jamesg11 on 14 Jul 2011, 02:03 am

Ripping sacd to dsdiff - is there mac anything yet to achieve this? The obvious way to go, when it's possible.

No, it's a PS3 with 3rd party firmware...ISO rip and/or DIFF extract, or take ripped ISO and do Diff extract via Windows tool.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=95396.0

HumanMedia · « **Reply #353 on:** 14 Jul 2011, 06:08 am »

Quote from: jamesg11 on 14 Jul 2011, 02:03 am

Ripping sacd to dsdiff - is there mac anything yet to achieve this? The obvious way to go, when it's possible.

I do it in a Windows Virtual machine (running on Mac OSX).

jamesg11 · « **Reply #354 on:** 14 Jul 2011, 11:04 am »

So, get a ps3 with right firmware. Probably not that many to go around.

ted_b · « **Reply #355 on:** 14 Jul 2011, 01:41 pm »

Please take the SACD ripping discussion over to the link I sent. Thx

Phil A · « **Reply #356 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 03:03 am »

Quote from: Phil A on 13 Jul 2011, 03:06 am

I am not sure of the particulars but the unit he uses to measure does have a coax input. I'd assume (but can't be sure) that he measured it with the coax input. At the Capital Audiofest I also spoke to the Integra rep who was using a closed-out Integra DPS 6.9 into the big pre/pro. This is a DVD universal player. I did read the manual and it does indicate it can output 176.4kHz. There is less than 100 left in their warehouse. I ordered one from my local dealer (with tax and shipping was a few dollars over $300). I figured I could always find a place for it somewhere and it is not a horrible price. If I find it works with the de-embedder, I may drop John Gatski a line and since he is local to me see if I can bring over the Integra and see what it outputs. If so, I can talk to him more. I personally could not get the Sony to work without a handshake and I thought it did not sound as good as the Oppo.

I picked up the Integra DPS-6.9 tonight and about a half hour back I ran through the set-up menu and have an SACD playing with the player going into the Port-ta de-embedder with no handshake and it registers 176.4kHz on the Bryston BDA-1 DAC. The player is of course not broken in, and I have not done comparisons to how it sounds passing PCM vs. the BDP-83, but from what I hear, I have every reason to believe I'm getting 24/176.4kHz, especially after hearing the Sony BDP-BX37, which after I did a handshake to get it to work, took me 60 seconds to hear it was not as good as what I was getting from the BDP-83.

Phil A · « **Reply #357 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 03:39 am »

btw - the Integra DPS-6.9 also has a nice display of track read-out for those interested. You can change the color on the menu too. I have a 19 LCD about 7 feet from the listening chair (the first pic below is the entrance to the room to show the proximity of the LCD to the chair) which I main got for DVD-A menus so I would not need to turn on the projector. I then hooked a camera to the front door and piped it all around (I have manual switch behind the TV) so I can see if it is worthwhile to answer the door and I also have the Marantz DV9600 universal going into it (to set-up things). The 2nd pic is a read-out of what the DPS-6.9 displays. So far, with about 45 minutes of listening, I'm happy with it.

Phil A · « **Reply #358 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 04:16 pm »

I did exchange an E-Mail with John Gatski of everythingaudio.net. He has, as noted, an Atlona HDMI de-embedder and the ATI device that reads word length. He indicated that the Oppo (80 and 83SE) truncate the PCM word length via their SPDIF ports. It is interesting that when I first got my Port-ta de-embedder and was verifying it could pass 192kHz, I only listened to a couple of things for a few minutes but thought that it was actually a bit better going through the de-embedder. I talked a friend of mine into getting the de-embedder to use with his DAC vs. getting an expensive SACD player and when we were exchanging E-Mails, he noted he thought the coax output of the Oppo (he has the 83SE) was not that great and I noted to him when I tried it with my Oppo (modded BDP-83), I noticed some differences, though minor and after a very brief listen. I attributed it to the coax output of the Oppo (and it didn't make a great difference to me as when I listened to stuff I turned on the system via the Harmony remote and selected HDMI audio where everything was going through the de-embedder) and apparently it is the word length difference.

John also indicated that he has tested the "current Sony BD, Yamaha universal and others ... and that "most truncate the word length on DSD to PCM." As I noted, I only had a short time with the Integra right out of the box. It did sound good and did light up 176.4kHz on the DAC via the de-embedder with no handshake. After it breaks in and I get a chance to do more with it, I will be offer a more informed opinion and I might see if John would be willing at some point to let me bring over the Integra and test it.

kdbrink · « **Reply #359 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 03:07 am »

Has anyone tried using the Atlona with a DirecTV box? I'm getting a lot of digital noise (sound cuts in and out) via the HDMI output from the satellite box.