Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!

john garnet · « **Reply #100 on:** 9 Aug 2010, 06:22 am »

Another basic question: I intend to set up a multi channel system in the near future using a multi channel analogue preamp (McIntosh C45 -music performance is most important to me, not so worried about movies). So using the Atlona into my Bryston dac is fine for stereo however, I think I would go for an Oppo BD83se for its quite decent multi channel performance. So when connecting the 7.1 analogue outs, would you connect them straight from the Oppo to the C45 or would you need to take them from the Atlona to the C45 ( HDMI from Oppo to Atlona, analogue outs from Atlona to C45)?

Thanks,
John

ted_b · « **Reply #101 on:** 9 Aug 2010, 10:48 am »

Go straight from the SE. Much better analog section.

john garnet · « **Reply #102 on:** 9 Aug 2010, 11:03 am »

Thanks Ted!

jsalk · « **Reply #103 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 05:25 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 8 Aug 2010, 01:13 pm

Wow! Nice find of this great new box. Looks like it also does EDID learning, meaning you wouldn't'have to have the HDMI backend connected or on necessarily, once learned. I may just have to ask Atlona for a demo unit.

Just ordered one. Hopefully I can use it with an outboard DAC without having to have an HDMI receiver or screen on the back end. I'll report back when it arrives.

- Jim

markm1111 · « **Reply #104 on:** 17 Aug 2010, 02:36 am »

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am a little confused....

How is this different to just running an optical or coax digital cable straight from the bluray player to the dac? I currently run my HDMI to the tv (makes it easy for my wife), coax digital to my Bel Canto Dac3, and optical digital to my Onkyo AVR.

Am I missing something?

Phil A · « **Reply #105 on:** 17 Aug 2010, 02:52 am »

Quote from: markm1111 on 17 Aug 2010, 02:36 am

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am a little confused....

How is this different to just running an optical or coax digital cable straight from the bluray player to the dac? I currently run my HDMI to the tv (makes it easy for my wife), coax digital to my Bel Canto Dac3, and optical digital to my Onkyo AVR.

Am I missing something?

You can't get SACD or high rez PCM converted from SACD through a coax or an optical digital out. I bought the Port-ta HDMI switch which also de-embeds the audio (over coax or optical) and will pass 192kHz for that reason. My Oppo converts SACD to 24/88.2kHz PCM (chip limited - some things can do 176.4) and it goes into my Bryston DAC and gets upconverted to 176.4. So far I like it going through the DAC a bit more vs. my modded Oppo over the analog outs and I've ordered an upgraded power supply for my Squeezebox Touch which will also work on my de-embedder

Phil A · « **Reply #106 on:** 17 Aug 2010, 03:10 am »

Quote from: markm1111 on 17 Aug 2010, 02:36 am

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am a little confused....

How is this different to just running an optical or coax digital cable straight from the bluray player to the dac? I currently run my HDMI to the tv (makes it easy for my wife), coax digital to my Bel Canto Dac3, and optical digital to my Onkyo AVR.

Am I missing something?

The Atlona de-embedders also have analog outs so someone with a multi-channel input (but no HDMI) can get Dolby True HD into their system.

ted_b · « **Reply #107 on:** 17 Aug 2010, 03:34 am »

Quote from: markm1111 on 17 Aug 2010, 02:36 am

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am a little confused....

How is this different to just running an optical or coax digital cable straight from the bluray player to the dac? I currently run my HDMI to the tv (makes it easy for my wife), coax digital to my Bel Canto Dac3, and optical digital to my Onkyo AVR.

Am I missing something?

To add to what the others stated, the standard coax or toslink is limited to redbook (16/44), lossy Dolby Digital, or DVD-Audio up to 24/912k. It will not send PCM-converted SACD (up to 24/88.2k) or BluRay codecs like TrueHD or DTS HD MA (up to 24/192k). Those need HDMI..which these boxes grab and de-embed.

EDS_ · « **Reply #108 on:** 17 Aug 2010, 04:14 am »

tagged

Awesome thread.

markm1111 · « **Reply #109 on:** 17 Aug 2010, 04:37 am »

Thanks guys

Makes sense now. My bluray player isn't a universal player so it doesn't play SACD or DVD-A, but I might look into this just for the bluray audio

Cheers

Phil A · « **Reply #110 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 11:42 pm »

PS - I talked a friend into getting the Port-ta box which he just received and he told me Monoprice has the same box with their name on it and I looked at their site and it looks identical - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

Fife · « **Reply #111 on:** 24 Aug 2010, 05:54 am »

Using the Ps3 to Porta to SA50, no issues with 24/96 or 24/192 from blu-Ray discs. Works like a charm.

ted_b · « **Reply #112 on:** 24 Aug 2010, 04:29 pm »

Positive reports of another HDMi de-embbeder, this time the Octava HDDA51 (reprinted from NAIM DAC forum):
Hi Hook and all

Today I received my modified EDID and it works Big Grin .

I now have high-resolution digital audio from my Oppo BDP-83 over SPDIF which has been de-embedded from Oppo's HDMI-output by my Octava HDDA51. I get this from both DVD-Audio and SACD.
From DVD-Audio was no issue really because that is also output over Oppo's own SPDIF. But from SACD was an issue because Oppo converts the DSD-layer into 88.2 kHz PCM but only outputs this over HDMI and this HDMI can normally only be processed by HDMI-capable devices.
The Oppo will of course also process the DSD-layer and output it over its analogue outputs. But I think the Naim DAC (esp. with XPS-2 or higher PSU) far better than Oppo's internal DSD-processor/DAC.

Since the Naim DAC cannot handle HDMI connections I have been looking for other ways of obtaining a SPDIF digital signal from SACDs to have it processed by my Naim DAC. This is were the Octava comes into play.

I bought an Octava HDDA51, which is an HDMI switch (5 input & 1 output) but which also de-embeds the digital audio from the HDMI signal and outputs it over SPDIF TosLink or COAX. Other HDDA-models are also available and I guess they will work the same way, but I have checked.

Now a little bit of theory about HDMI Frown

With the HDMI technology it is such that a source (eg. SACD-player) will only send a signal (audio or video) of a resolution it knows the receiver (TV-set, AV-processor etc) is capable of processing. So it will only send a 192 kHz audio signal if it knows for sure that the receiver will be able to process a 192 kHz audio signal. This exchange of capabilities is done during what is called the HDMI-handshake. If a HDMI-receiver is not capable of processing a high resolution signal or the handshake failed then the source will revert to a low resolution signal.

The Octava HDMI-switches will pass-on any data between connected sources and receivers, and will by default not interfere with the data that is being passed.

This all works fine if you've got two devices that have an HDMI-connection. Our Naim DAC doesn't have an HDMI-connection and many earlier type AV-processors didn't either. Normally this means you cannot receive high-resolution data from the source, even though your receiver device can process it (like our Naim DAC which can go up to 192 kHz over SPDIF), just because the receiver lacks the HDMI-connection.

This is where the special capabilities of the Octava HDDA HDMI-splitters come into play.
The Octava HDDA splitter are provided with an extra set of two chips that can replace the original ones. One chip contains the firmware which has been adapted such that the Octava now does interfere in the information exchange between source and receiver. What it does is that it now returns the capabilities of the non-HDMI device that is attached to the SPDIF coax or toslink.
These capabilities of the non-HDMI device are stored in the second replacement chip, the so called static EDID. The EDID is an industry wide standard for defining audio and video capabilities of consumer devices and is normally inbuilt in the electronics of consumer devices. The Octava HDDA splitter has an exchangable EDID-chip.

The EDID-chip that I received with my Octava HDDA51 was coded in such a way that it didn't (properly) specify the LPCM capabilities as being able to process high resolution audio.

My dealer, that supplies both Octava and Oppo BDP-83, could create an updated EDID chip with the proper LPCM high-resolution definition and now voila: high-resolution SACD output (that is 88.2 kHz LPCM because that is what the Oppo converts the DSD stream to)!!

Now I understand how all this works, I think it should be even possible for those that are also a bit handy in electronics to create update EDID chips themselves.
There are free EDID programs out there available that help you create an EDID-definition binary, which is bl****dy difficult stuff on the video side so you would need a good starting point, but is remarkably easy for the audio side of things. When you also have access to the proper E-EPROM programmer then it is quite easy to program a replacement EDID-chip.

For those that are not so handy, find a proper dealer and explain him what you want and it should be quite easy for him to do. For those looking for a good dealer, I know one who can do it and will ship also internationally. Winker

So if any questions remain, ask them.

-
aleg

Phil A · « **Reply #113 on:** 14 Sep 2010, 02:30 am »

I received the Monoprice HDMI audio de-embedder. It does look identical to the Port-ta box. I posted a few pictures in my Gallery. Hopefully by the coming weekend I'll have a chance to test it to see if it can pass 192kHz audio too.

mrhyfy · « **Reply #114 on:** 14 Sep 2010, 02:41 am »

I've got the monoprice switcher,,doesn't seem to fool my oppo bdp-83 into out putting a hi- rez signal from dvd-a's or sacd's.I suspect it doesn't complete the hdmi handshake completely. Rate is limited to 48k no matter how I tweek the oppo

Phil A · « **Reply #115 on:** 14 Sep 2010, 11:01 pm »

Quote from: mrhyfy on 14 Sep 2010, 02:41 am

I've got the monoprice switcher,,doesn't seem to fool my oppo bdp-83 into out putting a hi- rez signal from dvd-a's or sacd's.I suspect it doesn't complete the hdmi handshake completely. Rate is limited to 48k no matter how I tweek the oppo

I am running January (2010) firmware in the Oppo. A bit ago, someone sent me a PM they had problems with later firmware and I believe had to adjust one of the settings. I will be trying it probably at some point. The Port-ta box, which sure looks identical, has no problems passing 192kHz

Phil A · « **Reply #116 on:** 14 Sep 2010, 11:30 pm »

I could be wrong but I don't think you would get output with handshake issues that was stable. The FAQ still shows Oppo can output 24/88.2. I'll see if I can try it a bit later. The power supply, although it has the same output, I believe is a different Wall Wart and I want to also make sure it is the same connector/polarity (I have the other one in the box as I got an upgraded power supply for the Squeezebox Touch and it also fits the Port-ta box).

Phil A · « **Reply #117 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 02:12 am »

Quote from: mrhyfy on 14 Sep 2010, 02:41 am

I've got the monoprice switcher,,doesn't seem to fool my oppo bdp-83 into out putting a hi- rez signal from dvd-a's or sacd's.I suspect it doesn't complete the hdmi handshake completely. Rate is limited to 48k no matter how I tweek the oppo

I didn't have much time but I tested the Monoprice unit. The power supply from the Monoprice unit worked on the Port-ta unit. I plugged the Monoprice unit in and the remote from the Port-ta unit worked. I put in an SACD and the DAC locked on the 88.2kHz signal. I put in a 192kHz DVD-A and the DAC also locked on the signal. While I spent less than 3 minutes, I'd have to conclude they are the same unit.

Do you have secondary audio set to off?

NordicNorm · « **Reply #118 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 03:56 pm »

Hey Phil!

What model of Bryston DAC are you using? I've bought the monoprice box to hook up to my Oppo 980H but I just noticed my DAC will only go up to 96kHz!?

So I'm now looking to upgrade my DAC. Any recommendations/endorsements would be appreciated.

cheers,
Norm

ted_b · « **Reply #119 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 04:24 pm »

Quote from: NordicNorm on 15 Sep 2010, 03:56 pm

Hey Phil!

What model of Bryston DAC are you using? I've bought the monoprice box to hook up to my Oppo 980H but I just noticed my DAC will only go up to 96kHz!?

So I'm now looking to upgrade my DAC. Any recommendations/endorsements would be appreciated.

cheers,
Norm

Let's take DAC recommendations to another thread, please. There are quite a few DACs that go to 24/192 (several I've reviewed and had inhouse). When starting the thread, mention budget and associated equipment. Thanks.