[Marius]

time flies when your having fun.
are there any pictures for that setup? or Schemes? I'll check the topic again, but there's a lot of it, so if you could point me to those?

Marius

No problem, sorry for the title..  Back when this started it was the ONLY option.  SACD ripping was not invented yet (thanks Mr Wicked).  I'm now doing nothing but ripping.

[ted_b]

I'm in the midst of developing a primer, with screen shots.  Stay tuned.

[Marius]

great, got it on Notify now.

Thanks,
Marius

I'm in the midst of developing a primer, with screen shots.  Stay tuned.

[Claude]

Thanks Ted for this great thread.

I have a two questions (to everybody):

1. Has anyone successfully used the procedure with the Oppo 93? Which de-embedder was used?

2. Has anyone compared the quality of the Oppo DSD-PCM conversion with the Foobar SACD plugin conversion (by playing a PS3 SACD rip on the PC and burned to DVD-R on the Oppo)? Both do DSD --> 24/88, so it would be interesting to know if there are differences.

Thanks.

[ted_b]

2. Has anyone compared the quality of the Oppo DSD-PCM conversion with the Foobar SACD plugin conversion (by playing a PS3 SACD rip on the PC and burned to DVD-R on the Oppo)? Both do DSD --> 24/88, so it would be interesting to know if there are differences.

Thanks.

No, but I've ripped almost 60 SACD's so far via PS3 and the resultant DIFF-to-PCM conversion (via Audiogate or Saracon) is quite a bit better than the de-embedder.  I still think the biggest issue is jitter via HDMI, but I could be wrong.

[Phil A]

Yes - HDMI has jitter.  A portion of it can be eliminated if your DAC re-clocks

[Phil A]

I finally managed to make it over to John Gatski's place of everythingaudio.net to test my Integra DPS-6.9 (non-Blu-Ray) universal player.  I knew it did 176.4kHz from my DAC from SACD but it does truncate word length to 16 bit with SACD and everything else.  He had an Oppo BDP-80 hooked to the de-embedder so we could swap in and out the same discs.  I believe except for Oppo players, everything he has tested truncates to 16 bits.

[Quiet Earth]

Interesting. I'm wondering if there is a consensus on how good the actual DSD to PCM conversion is in many of the players that are available as SACD transports.  And, if the conversion process itself is the biggest obstacle in getting really good sound out of the SACD format.

I saw a post made by HumanMedia (on AA) that said,  "Keep in mind that the on-the-fly PCM conversion of most players is VERY rough and flawed. For example at least one Sony player adds noise to the PCM signal (even in areas where there is digital silence) and the Oppo players add excessive gain and the PCM signal clips."

I would like to learn more about that if I can.

FWIW, I recently purchased one of the HDMI de-embedders and a few SACDs. I am using an Oppo BDP-83 for the transport and my DAC will lock onto the 88.2kHz coming out of the de-embedder. (It does truncate to 18 bits however.) It sounds pretty good to me so far, but I need to buy some more SACDs to get a feeling for whether or not it is a big improvement over a well done CD.

It is certainly fun though! 

(Still learning . . .  )

[jjc1]

Interesting. I'm wondering if there is a consensus on how good the actual DSD to PCM conversion is in many of the players that are available as SACD transports.  And, if the conversion process itself is the biggest obstacle in getting really good sound out of the SACD format.

I saw a post made by HumanMedia (on AA) that said,  "Keep in mind that the on-the-fly PCM conversion of most players is VERY rough and flawed. For example at least one Sony player adds noise to the PCM signal (even in areas where there is digital silence) and the Oppo players add excessive gain and the PCM signal clips."

I would like to learn more about that if I can.

FWIW, I recently purchased one of the HDMI de-embedders and a few SACDs. I am using an Oppo BDP-83 for the transport and my DAC will lock onto the 88.2kHz coming out of the de-embedder. (It does truncate to 18 bits however.) It sounds pretty good to me so far, but I need to buy some more SACDs to get a feeling for whether or not it is a big improvement over a well done CD.

It is certainly fun though! 

(Still learning . . .  )

     I am using an older OPPO 970H as a transport with a de-embedder thru theBryston BDA1 and the sound of SACD is very good. I also have the BDP1 which has excellent sound but I was so impressed by the OPPO, DE-embeeder and BDA that I just bought some more SACDs.  I never thought I would buy another CD after listening to the BDP1.

[Phil A]

John Gatski of everythingaudio.net uses an ATI ADAC2 to test the output of players - http://www.atiaudio.com//files/pdf/ATI%20ADAC-2%20Brochure%20033009.pdf

If one is testing by other certain other methods (this is a very long thread and it has been discussed) you can get bad bit rate reading.  The BDP-83 does 24 bit.  John has tested it.  He had a BDP-80 on his kitchen table set-up with the Atlona de-embedder and a portable DVD player for screen set-up and we tried a variety of discs.  I have a BDP-93 in the bedroom system.  It also does 24 bit.  I have an old Oppo DV-980 in the basement system which also will do 24 bit.  I'd love to get an ATI ADAC2.  I do use a one-third octave RTA for room set-up which wasn't what most people would define as cheap but it is cheap vs. the ATI ADAC2 which is $1.5k list (streets for about 10% off of that).

I may hook both my DV980H and the Integra in the secondary basement system to the de-embedder (assuming I can find rack space for it).  I also might try moving the BDP-93 to the main system.  Last time I briefly tried it, I was not able to get it to work with de-embedder but I did not try every combo of settings.  If I was able to have one HDMI output going to the de-embedder and one going to the processor it would save swapping cables (when I watch a Blu-Ray) but it is a simple process and not hard to get to.

John Gatski indicated he is getting a BDP-1 for review and while I am not quite ready, I eagerly await his analysis.  He does what he does for a long time and has equipment like the ATI ADAC2 that allows him to tell it like it is.  I looked all around for cheaper alternative and apparently they don't exist.  There are other brands that do what the ATI unit does like Drawmer but they cost about the same.  I did find a under $100 sampling frequency read-out device but nothing that can do what I'd like.

Ted has interesting stuff going on the PS3 and ripping SACDs.  I do have one in the secondary basement system that basically at this point I am not using.  It is there for back-up when and if my old Samsung 2500 can't read a particular disc but the Samsung is probably not going to stay long term, particularly if I end up going 3D in the secondary basement system with a new projector.

[Claude]

1. Has anyone successfully used the procedure with the Oppo 93? Which de-embedder was used?

I'm pushing this thread to repeat the question if someone has done this with an Oppo 93 or 95. Some posts above indicated that there might be a difference between the Oppo 83 and the 93 in that respect.

I just discovered that the Oppo 93 does only output 24/48 maximum through S/PDIF when playing Blu-ray discs (while there is no such limitation for DVD-A). I have a couple of Naxos Blu-ray Audio discs with 24/96 sound that I would like to hear in full resolution through my DAC (Electrocompaniet ECD-1). So this would be another reason to try the de-embedder route.

Thanks

[Claude]

I'm also quoting this old post, which apperently has not been answered yet. I also have no HDMI home theatre receiver, the only HDMI receiving devices being two TVs (Samsung and Sony) and a Samsung computer monitor (which accepts audio, as it has an analogue output).

Does the de-embedder procedure require a handshake with a HDMI device capable of accepting a 24/88 PCM signal in order to work with an Oppo?

Super interesting circle, this is just what I was looking for.

My TV only accepts up to 48 kHz sample rate as input over HDMI. It does accept 24 bits though. As far as I understand, this means that I will get the benefit of 24 bits, but not get any higher sample rate (88/176/192) by using the Atlona or the Porta/Monoprice boxes, because the TV will do the HDMI handshake and limit the sample rate to 48 kHz.

I checked the newest TV models from Sony and Samsung, and they have exactly the same spec. So this problem would likely apply to most people trying to use such a solution with a TV. I don't have a HT receiver, only a 2 channel stereo where I'd like to get high def sound from SACD and Bluray played on PS3 into my Hegel HD10 DAC.

Is it worth it to get the $40 Monoprice box in order to increase bit rate from 16 to 24? How important is the increased sample rate versus the increased bit rate in HD sound?

What would be the best solutions out there to get 192 kHz also, or at least 88 kHz? I guess I could get the Atlona 577 or the Monoprice + Grefen detective, and then go to a local shop to capture the EDID of a receiver which accepts 192/24. I think this could work with SACD, but with Bluray I need the TV to be connected through HDMI to get the picture, and then I fear the TV would interfere in the handshake and still limit the sample rate to 48 kHz.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Phil A]

Long thread but the prior question has been answered.  My Oppo BDP-83 requires no handshake with the Port-ta/Monoprice de-embedder

[jjc1]

Neither does  my OPPO 970h require a handshake.

[AVnerdguy]

I'm pushing this thread to repeat the question if someone has done this with an Oppo 93 or 95. Some posts above indicated that there might be a difference between the Oppo 83 and the 93 in that respect.

I just discovered that the Oppo 93 does only output 24/48 maximum through S/PDIF when playing Blu-ray discs (while there is no such limitation for DVD-A). I have a couple of Naxos Blu-ray Audio discs with 24/96 sound that I would like to hear in full resolution through my DAC (Electrocompaniet ECD-1). So this would be another reason to try the de-embedder route.

Thanks

I've tried it with the 93 but was unsuccessful. I followed all of the procedures from the posts to no avail. Then I started experimenting. After many hours I had to quit. I tried briefly again when the frustration level died down but no satisfactory results. That was a few months ago. I recently picked up some new gear (BDP-1/BDA-1, AVA 600R, and upped my DSL to 12Mbps) and I will be back in the rack installing equipment so I started researching again. I have 2 weeks off for the holidays so I'll have plenty of time to experiment.  I will have done more research by then and hopefully I will get favorable results. If I get this resolevd I'll post.

[djmckaytx]

I'm pushing this thread to repeat the question if someone has done this with an Oppo 93 or 95. Some posts above indicated that there might be a difference between the Oppo 83 and the 93 in that respect.

I have successfully used a de-embedder with the 83SE and now with a 95.  Now that I can rip my DVD-As and SACDs to hi-rez, using the de-embedder with the physical disc seems like a bit of a downgrade to me.  I use the USB ports on my 95 to play 24 bit (88.2/176.4) FLAC files directly into my WFS DAC-2.  Greatness...all my DVD-As have been ripped for awhile now -- and I cannot rip my SACD discs quick enough.

If you're contemplating an 83SE vs. a 95, grab the 95.  I happen to have an 83SE that I'll sell if anyone would rather have it.  Hope this helps.

[Claude]

Thanks to all of you.

@AVnerdguy and djmckaytx:

Which de-embedder have you been using with your Oppo 93/95? It seems that not every player/de-embedder combination is working.

[Phil A]

I've tried it with the 93 but was unsuccessful. I followed all of the procedures from the posts to no avail. Then I started experimenting. After many hours I had to quit. I tried briefly again when the frustration level died down but no satisfactory results. That was a few months ago. I recently picked up some new gear (BDP-1/BDA-1, AVA 600R, and upped my DSL to 12Mbps) and I will be back in the rack installing equipment so I started researching again. I have 2 weeks off for the holidays so I'll have plenty of time to experiment.  I will have done more research by then and hopefully I will get favorable results. If I get this resolevd I'll post.

I had trouble and was not able to get it to work with my BDP-93 (which I have in the bedroom system).  I have no trouble with the 83 in the main system nor with the DV980H I have in the basement system (which I also use with a de-embedder.  I may at some point revisit the 93 (usually when I dust it is a good time )

[djmckaytx]

Thanks to all of you.

@AVnerdguy and djmckaytx:

Which de-embedder have you been using with your Oppo 93/95? It seems that not every player/de-embedder combination is working.

I'm using the Atlona (577 if memory serves).

[jjc1]

I have successfully used a de-embedder with the 83SE and now with a 95.  Now that I can rip my DVD-As and SACDs to hi-rez, using the de-embedder with the physical disc seems like a bit of a downgrade to me.  I use the USB ports on my 95 to play 24 bit (88.2/176.4) FLAC files directly into my WFS DAC-2.  Greatness...all my DVD-As have been ripped for awhile now -- and I cannot rip my SACD discs quick enough.

If you're contemplating an 83SE vs. a 95, grab the 95.  I happen to have an 83SE that I'll sell if anyone would rather have it.  Hope this helps.

  I assume you rip SACDs with a Play Station? From what I've read here, it seems that is the only way.