I guess I'm in the club now

drphoto · « **Reply #20 on:** 9 Jun 2010, 10:33 pm »

I think I remembered that the MAD pre inverts phase. Not a problem w/ digital as my DAC has a phase invert switch. (nice feature, makes a difference from one recording to next)

So for the vinyl thing, I flopped the speaker wires. Hey now!! Very nice improvement. Better high end response and more balanced overall.

Gonna be a learning experience. So far.....I like it!!

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 02:57 am »

TT isolation can be a tricky thing. What makes it very easy is a wall shelf. Rega makes one, as does Target (not the store). Secured into some beams and it works fantastic. I'd use one, but I don't have the wall space - my listening room is a finished attic - and I rent.

I have a Musical Fidelity Stable-1 which works very well in my system. It sits on top of an old school oak stereo cabinet.

I've fooled around with an Ikea Lack end table. Worked very well also. I've been advised by a few dealers that a short or low to the floor small table works very well. If I used the Lack table or a lower table, I'm pretty sure I'd find one of my 2 cats using the deck as a napping spot. My wife and I are expecting our first child around Thanksgiving, which is another reason why I keep the TT up high. If you have these conditions, stay away from the low tables, if not give them a shot if you have something around the house.

Some people also use butcher blocks, slate, granite, bamboo, and so on. No two systems and sets of ears are alike.

The P3-24 has an improved motor over the previous generations. The TTPSU is still a big upgrade. Not yet though - figure out everything else first.

Mats and/or platters will probably change the sound a bit too. I think its got a glass platter? Maybe a Herbie's mat or an acrylic platter dampen it and help it sound more to your liking.

Rega tables do rock music very well. If its not getting the job done, keep experimenting with the free/almost free stuff - isolation, placement, speaker phase and placement, etc.

I really like Grados for the money (haven't heard modded ones), but I don't think they rock out as much as some others do. Dynavector may not be as warm, but it sounds a lot faster and tighter IMO.

Just some thoughts.

drphoto · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 02:57 am »

Well, I guess the new motor isn't shielded either, as I'm getting the dreaded Grado hum. Didn't notice at first, because only becomes bothersome as the cart moves near the spindle and approaches the motor. Guess I'm cart shopping now.

Anything decent in the <$150 range?

sts9fan · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 03:00 am »

I have a Dennon DL-110 on my Rega and it is fantastic.

drphoto · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 03:13 am »

I think I'll give it a shot. Apparantly others agree, as it has some nice reviews. Never would have thought of Denon. Thanks.

Since you have Rega, do you have any suggestions about my cue lift not working properly, and what do you run for isolation w/ a non-suspended deck?

BTW: in case you missed my comment, I thought your photo was funny and spot on. I certainly took no offence.

sts9fan · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 03:23 am »

I am glad you were cool with it. Honestly I totally relate to your journey. As a newish audiophile sometimes I feel like that peg. I only have a lowly P1 but am planning on upgrading to something a bit more respectable. Such as a P5 or the one you got. I just have my deck on my rack with no isolation. My set up is actually very quiet. The Dennon was a big upgrade.

Kris

jrtrent · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 01:18 pm »

Rega recommends a light, rigid platform for their turntables. The Ikea Lack end table has been used by many to good effect; Rega's own wall mount is probably optimum. The Denon cartridge has a lowish output (1.6mV) that could be an issue if you're hearing hiss with your tube amp, but its sonic strengths, according to reviews, seem to match your stated preferences from earlier posts and I think your Mapletree preamp should have the gain to handle it (you might call Mapletree for advice on this). A 2mm shim from Rega should get the VTA right with your tonearm. Another option in your price range that I like is Rega's Bias 2 cartridge; very hefty output (about 7mV) and no shims required.

sts9fan · « **Reply #27 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 01:46 pm »

I have no issue with tube rush with my tube amp but thats not to say your pre will not. 1.7mv is fine with a MM stage imo.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 02:11 pm »

Quote from: sts9fan on 11 Jun 2010, 01:46 pm

1.7mv is fine with a MM stage imo.

Agreed. I've used a cartridge with 1/2 the output into an MM stage with no major issues.

I've heard Kris's setup and I have to agree that the Rega/Denon combo is really sweet! Denon's cartridges are their best products, IMHO.

Wayner · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 04:07 pm »

There is a set-screw on the horizontal arm lift pad and you will need a very small allen wrench, like .050". Get one at ACE hardware or someplace like that. Loosen the set-screw, CAREFUL NOT TO STRIP THE HEAD, and you can push the lift assembly down or pull it up, what ever you need and tighten the set-screw to the new position. You should see a gap between the pad of the lift mechanism and your arm when you are playing your thickest LP, otherwise the lift mechanism will interfere with play.

Sorry your Grado hums, I was suspect that it might. The real problem will be the stepdown transformer inside the plinth. That could be re-mounted in a small plastic box, keeping it further away from the TT and bring the DC power over from there, unless I'm mistaken and it runs on a wall wart.

Also make sure your TT is away from your power amplifier or preamp if it's close to the left hand side of the TT.

I suggest an Audio Technica AT440MLa for this (you won't have any hum problem), leaving your TT as is.

Wayner

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #30 on:** 11 Jun 2010, 05:24 pm »

The two carts that immediately come to mind are the Denon and Audio Technica. Both are fantastic for the money. Keep in mind the P3 is capable of a lot more though. Rega's Bias 2 is well regraded as well. I don't care much for their carts, but everyone has their favorites.

See my post above regarding isolation.

drphoto · « **Reply #31 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 02:50 am »

Ok, I looked at some specs. My current Grado Green outputs 5 mV and I have to run the gain up pretty high on my MAD Ultra 4 pre to get the volume I want. The Denon is only 1.6 mV, so it may be out of the running. The AT is rated @ 4 mV.

Now, how about this crazy idea? I still have my Tempest pre, which has a MC input. What if I use that just as a phono pre and send it's output to the line in of the tube pre? Of course, it means even more IC's in the mix. (It's already starting to look like a rat's nest behind my rack now!)

I simply can not spend the money for specialty MC standalone pre's right now. (like the Nighthawk)

On the other hand Ortofon Red or Blue (which are often bundled w/ P1 & P2s are rated at 5.5 mV and the Rega carts are coming in at around 7 mV.

I know some of you have said you don't care for the Rega's sound however.

Wayne said something about hum from a tranny for the motor. The P3-24 uses a walwart & a DC motor, as far as I know. But could I maybe construct some sort of shield for the motor from copper? I don't want to do any permanent mods to the deck, but maybe if this would work I could tape it in place.

I like the sound of the Grado, except for the hum of course. I wanted warm, and it has that. In fact, I really wouldn't mind something w/ a bit more brightness, but that maybe a function on my incorrect VTA. ( I gotta get those shims)

todays post from the 'ramblin man.

I appreciate all your help guys!

SteveFord · « **Reply #32 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 03:23 am »

No affiliation but I can recommend this cartridge from personal experience. It may be more than you can swing at the moment but if you can, I'm pretty sure you'll stop looking for another cartridge for many years to come.
The Ortofon Bronze is also pretty highly regarded but I have no first hand experience with that one.
Perhaps someone who's into Regas can comment as to how it would work with your particular table?

www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1281113458&/Ortofon-2m-black-low-hours

MaxCast · « **Reply #33 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 12:01 pm »

Congrats Dr. I will be in your shoes one day also so I read this thread with interest. I do have to ask you what record cleaning system did you go with, if any yet?

Wayner · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 05:01 pm »

The only way to really shield a motor's magnetic field effectively is with Mu-metal. It is a nickel based alloy and can help you with your hum. Mu-metal is expensive, and the thicker the better. But this is going down a bad path. I would also give up on the Grado for this table and find a replacement.

Wayner

drphoto · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 08:41 pm »

What about the idea of using the Tempest MC phono pre section to step up the signal from lower output carts? Crazy.....or crazy like a fox?

I thought I was going to get the KAB entry level vacuum cleaner, but there's a non vacuum unit at needledoctor.com that spins the LP vertically in a trough of solution w/ brushes on each side. Pro reviews say it works and it's cheap. I think it's called the Spin Clean? Anyone have any experience w/ it.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 09:25 pm »

I wouldn't run an MM cart into an MC stage. Too much voltage going in won't be good. I'm not good with the numbers, but I think it's very safe to say that MC stages are designed to handle a very low amount of voltage, and your MM cart is multiples of it.

If you're getting too much noise or other issues with your cart, something may be wrong with the phono stage. It shouldn't have too many issues with a 4mV cart.

I use a high output MC into an MM stage. Noise is very low, but I do have to turn up the volume more than I was when I used an MM cart.

Just because I don't like the Rega carts doesn't mean you won't! It's not a bad cart at all. It's just not my cup of tea. The Ortofon recommendations are very good. Ortofon is a very well balanced and easy to live with line. Very hard to fault. There may be carts that do one or two things better, or are more lively, but they're usually at the expense of something else. Not that Ortofons sound dead by any means.

I'd look into why the phono stage is acting the way it is. It shouldn't be loud or need to be cranked to get normal volumes from a 4mV cart.

SteveFord · « **Reply #37 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 09:31 pm »

On another forum that I belong to a fellow has the Spin Clean unit and says that it's okay but thinks that the vacuum is what is missing.
Maybe snag a used VPI 16.5? Deals come up if you hunt around.
For sixty bucks, though, that does sound worth doing.

drphoto · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 Jun 2010, 10:02 pm »

Stu, I wasn't going to run a 4 mV MM into the MC input, but thinking it might allow trying the Denon MC (even though it's a fairly high output unit at 1.6 mV.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 Jun 2010, 02:24 am »

Gotcha. I was a bit confused. High output MCs can do pretty well with MM stages. Mine does. Maybe post specs of the cart andphono stage to see if they'll be fine? I'm not good with the numbers. My dealer took care of all that for me.