The new Onix Ref 1's vs. 1801's

gotmikey · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 May 2003, 05:01 am »

I'm trying to setup a comparison between my 1801F's vs. the Rocket Ref 1's vs. whatever else is currently the "hot item" somewhere in the San Diego/Los Angeles area. Got in contact with some guys in the LA area who are interested. Anyone in the area have some bomber speakers and interested? On a side note, I had the opportunity to audition Danny's AV-1+'s in house about two months ago. These speakers did sound very nice, they bested my Paradigm Studio 80's, but didn't sound as good as the 1801's. Midrange just couldn't compete. Personally, as I listen to my the 1801's right now I can't imagine how a speaker could sound much better and I'm not being biased. No, I don't work for Dave, I'm just being honest although I know there will always be something better out there. Thanks, Dave for taking me to another level! Truly amazing.

gotmikey · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 May 2003, 05:04 am »

Oh, one more thing... couldn't stay away huh Dave?

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 May 2003, 03:07 pm »

Is it true that there is a 1 year waitlist on these ELLis babies?

gotmikey · « **Reply #23 on:** 22 May 2003, 03:18 pm »

If you want him to build them for you. I built mine myself and I must say it was pretty rewarding.

Darren Thomas · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 May 2003, 03:31 pm »

Quote from: TheeeChosenOne

Is it true that there is a 1 year waitlist on these ELLis babies?

Nope, I am also building the Ellis 1801's with Dave's blessing, he has a link to me on his website. My lead time is about 2 months at present because I'm in the middle of a move but usually 4-5 weeks, I build them to the exact specs. You can see my work at my website:

www.thomaswoodcraft.com

Just a little shameless self promotion

Darren

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #25 on:** 22 May 2003, 04:35 pm »

Darren,
Nice work! Good to know of other high quality sources.

BTW, since I see you've done work on the AV1+ as well, may I ask which speaker did you prefer sonically between the AV1+ and Ellis?..........

Darren Thomas · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 May 2003, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: TheeeChosenOne

Darren,
Nice work! Good to know of other high quality sources.

BTW, since I see you've done work on the AV1+ as well, may I ask which speaker did you prefer sonically between the AV1+ and Ellis?..........

Thanks

The comparison between the AV1+ and the 1801's is somewhat unfair with the cost difference but just the same I prefer the 1801's. I think a good comparison would be between the 1801's and the Diluceo's which are priced similarly and should be quite a good comparison. I haven't heard the Diluceo's yet but am building 4 pairs right now so it's just a matter of time

The AV1+ is no slouch though. I have 5 of them in my home theater and there is no better choice for home theater in my opinion...good quality sound at a very reasonable price. They perform extremely well in music also. I just feel the 1801's have a fuller sound, more low frequency extension and a bigger soundstage. The thing is the AV1+'s beat very expensive retail speakers and the 1801's are a bit more to my liking for music.

Did I answer that clearly or just babble?

Darren

Sa-dono · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 May 2003, 07:22 pm »

For what it's worth...just thought I'd mention I am one of the LA people that gotmikey is talking about. I thought I would also mention that a comparison between the ACI Sapphire's, Ellis 1801's, and Onix Ref 1's has been done, and thoughts have been written up on the AVS forums.

One more thing...from reading this thread and others like it...I have seen a lot of importance placed on the cost of the driver..but you must also realize that implementation is also highly important. I could take the drivers that cost the most in the world and still build a speaker that sounds like cr*p..while the best designer could take $5 drivers and make his speakers sound a billion times better. Just food for thought...

Nice cabinet work btw Darren! I know if I ever had some speakers built from a kit I'd send them your way

Darren Thomas · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 May 2003, 07:26 pm »

Quote from: Sa-dono

For what it's worth...just thought I'd mention I am one of the LA people that gotmikey is talking about. I thought I would also mention that a comparison between the ACI Sapphire's, Ellis 1801's, and Onix Ref 1's has been done, and thoughts have been written up on the AVS forums.

One more thing...from reading this thread...I have seen a lot of importance placed on the cost of the driver..but you must also realize that implementation is also highly important. I could take the drivers that cost the ...

I definately agree with this. The AV1+'s have extremely high end crossover parts and they are designed very well utilizing no resistors. The drivers are low cost but very effective and designed well. I didn't mean to say an expensive driver would beat a less expensive driver because of cost but it sure sounded that way didn't it?

I guess what I meant to say is that the AV1+ was designed to be a great speaker at a reasonably low price and was designed to be paired with a sub. The Ellis 1801 was an all out effort to build a great speaker at a higher cost. The Diluceo's are in a similar arena as they were designed without cost consideration...to a degree

I also believe the Diluceo was designed to be paired with a sub.

Thanks for the compliments! I'd be happy to build ya some speakers if you ever get the itch.

Darren

Sa-dono · « **Reply #29 on:** 22 May 2003, 10:03 pm »

Quote from: Darren Thomas

I didn't mean to say an expensive driver would beat a less expensive driver because of cost but it sure sounded that way didn't it?

Actually I wasn't referring to your post..but more of some of the earlier posts in the thread...saying something along of the line that the Ref 1's could not sound that good compared to the 1801's, as the drivers cost much less...yada yada yada

I am excited to get the chance to finally hear the 1801's though. I love listening to speakers

Quote

Thanks for the compliments! I'd be happy to build ya some speakers if you ever get the itch.

I'll keep that in mind..and be sure to let you know if and when I find a kit I want built

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 May 2003, 07:39 am »

Darren or Anyone Else,
I understand the Ellis excel in the mids. However, I understand that they are "lacking" with rock music, as opposed to classical and female vocals where they excel.

I understand that a NEW crossover is being developed to address this issue (i.e. betterment with rock)? Right or wrong?............

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 May 2003, 09:48 am »

Anyone familiar with:

Tyler Reference Monitor
Tyler Linbrook
Reference 3a

How would the Ellis compare as Tyler & Ellis share some components I believe............

Darren Thomas · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 May 2003, 01:44 pm »

Quote from: TheeeChosenOne

Darren or Anyone Else,
I understand the Ellis excel in the mids. However, I understand that they are "lacking" with rock music, as opposed to classical and female vocals where they excel.

I understand that a NEW crossover is being developed to address this issue (i.e. betterment with rock)? Right or wrong?............

Are you referring to the 1801b? I have listened to a pair with this new revised crossover and thought it was excellent. I listened to some rock and they appeared to reproduce the music well of course my rock CD's are mastered terribly though. Sorry I can't give you much more than that. I don't have long with the speakers before I have to ship them to their new homes

Darren

Jay S · « **Reply #33 on:** 23 May 2003, 01:48 pm »

Quote from: TheeeChosenOne

Anyone familiar with:

Tyler Reference Monitor
Tyler Linbrook
Reference 3a

How would the Ellis compare as Tyler & Ellis share some components I believe............

I can't do a comparison but I am listening to the Linbrook tomorrow at a friend's place. I will be bringing over my eAR amp to pair with it. He's got the complete Linbrook setup - monitors as well as bass modules.

Sa-dono · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 May 2003, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: TheeeChosenOne

Anyone familiar with:

Tyler Reference Monitor

How would the Ellis compare as Tyler & Ellis share some components I believe............

I'm hoping to hear the Tyler Reference Monitor soon..and also the 1801 as a floorstander. I won't be able to do any direct A/B's..but should be able to get an idea of the tonality of both. Of course then again, if the Tyler owner is interested in the 1801's...and his schedule can work out with whenever the audition is..maybe I can get a direct A/B. I'll just have to see.....

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 May 2003, 11:16 pm »

Sa-Dono,
That would be great if you could pull off a comparison.

randytsuch · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 May 2003, 11:39 pm »

The Tyler owner will see what he can do, but he has a wife and two small kids that keep his weekends busy, and limit his spare time

.

As far as the Tylers vs the Reference's, I assume you are talking about the De Capos, as those are the monitors which would compare in new price and size to the Taylo reference monitors.

I heard them in the same setup, at the same place, but it was a couple of years ago. I discounted the De Capos because they did not make a center for HT, and I wanted that when I was shopping, although I don't anymore.

That said, I thought the De Capos sounded really good, and may give them a small edge over the Taylos. But, I think the De Capos were revised since I heard them, so don't know what they sound like now.

Randy

Ravi · « **Reply #37 on:** 24 May 2003, 03:07 am »

I believe he was talking about the Onix Reference 1.

Tom Bombadil · « **Reply #38 on:** 1 Jun 2003, 01:05 am »

The following observations were posted to AVSforum on March 9th, by a person who participated in a comparsion of the Ellis 1801, ACI Sapphire, and Onix Reference 1. However he doesn't really say much about how the Ref 1 sounded vis a vis the 1801. Indirectly he says that the new Sapphire comes very close to matching the 1801 and then later, that he would have a hard time telling the Ref 1 apart from the Sapphire in a blind test.

*******

I had a great time at Jack's house yesterday. Thanks for letting us use your home and equipment.

As previously stated, we started off with the Ellis 1801s. I have heard them before (vs my Sapphire IIIs) so I knew what the Sapphire and Ref 1 were up against. They are amazing speakers. The midrange is very sweet and warm. The treble is smooth and all of the vocals we listened to were amazing. They lack in low bass, but they more than make up for it in midrange and treble. The only real downside to these speakers is the wait to get a pair.

Next up was the Sapphire. It is a large improvement over the Sapphire III, which was also a great speaker. The Sapphire's soundstage is great - instruments are very precise and their location is well defined in the soundstage. I love listening to female vocals on these, as the midrange and treble are wonderful. I do prefer the midrange of the 1801, but it is by a small margin.

The Sapphire has a very tight, low and fast bass. Since owning these I have stopped using my SVS subwoofer when listening to non-rock music.

When I originally compared my Sapphire III to the 1801, the 1801 was clearly the 'winner'. When I heard about the new Sapphire that ACI was designing, I hoped that it would match what I heard with the Ellis. They have come very, very close to matching what I would consider the best monitor I have heard.

I was very interested to hear the Reference One, as I was impressed with the Rocket 750 and wanted to see what they could do with a monitor.
The first thing I noticed was the great treble. It was very detailed and well defined. One of my complaints of the 750 was that the treble wasn't as detailed as I would like. They got it right (IMHO) with the Ref One.

The midrange was very similar to the Sapphire. I honestly have difficulties telling the two apart. The Ref 1 is a bit more forward, but not in a bad way.
The bass is amazing for such a little driver. It isn't quite as low as the Sapphire, but it is tight and fast. That little driver had quite a workout and handled everything we threw at it with ease.

On the drive home I thought "I doubt I could tell the difference between the Sapphire and Ref1 in a blind test." When I saw that hectic1 said the same thing, I laughed a little. Both of us had a hard time distinguishing between the two (and three sometimes). All of these speakers are so 'perfect' that differences between them are very minimal.

They are all wonderful speakers, and I would be very happy if I owned any of them (and since I do own one of them, I am happy). Mike Dzurko at ACI, Mark Schifter at av123, and Dave Ellis are doing all of us a great service by offering world-class monitors at incredible prices.

hectic1 · « **Reply #39 on:** 1 Jun 2003, 03:22 pm »

Hey guys, I was one of the people in attendance during the fore-mentioned listening session. Since that time I have spent countless hours with my Ref 1's and I feel I really know the sound of these speakers now. Keep in mind that when this session was done I had only had my Ref 1's for a couple weeks and I hadn't done any critical listening.

Jackman had changed his 1801a's to the 1801b's and he stated that he liked the original sound better. He was in the process of reinstalling the original crossover back in so I haven't had the opportunity to hear them since then. We are going to try to get together again here in the next week or so to have another installment of the 1801 vs Ref 1 session.