[pugs]

Can someone please explain general differences between ribbons and cones.  I'm starting to think about my next set of speakers (still a ways off) and I want to start getting some ideas.  I have Odyssey monos and Tempest so I guess Lorelei are on the list.  VMPS RM-30 are interesting, but I've never heard ribbons.

My room is about 12'W and 14' deep with one wall open to the living room.  I love thumping bass, and I'm skeptical that the 2-way Lorelei can produce what I want.  Ultimately, I want smooth, musical, non fatiguing sound.  I like jazz, rock and rap.

Again, I'm a ways off on a new speaker purchase, but I want to get an idea of what direction I want to move.

Thanks

[pugs]

Whoops, one more thing.  The speakers will be used for HT and 2ch, so matching center and surrounds are a must.  I don't think the Lorelei have exact matches, do they?

[jackman]

Hi,
I know there are plenty of differences in how cones and ribbons and electrostatic speakers operate.  Proponents of each will give you the plusses and minuses, however I think the most important aspect of each is how it sounds to you.  Secondary, you should also consicer how they sound in your room.  Some speakers require a larger space or have limited vertical dispersion.  Some require you to pull them out into the room to sound their best, and some require special amplification to sound their best.  All have strengths, all have weaknesses.  

I would suggest putting together some good program material (your favorite CD's) and taking a trip to some local B&M stores to hear ribbons and cone based speakers (heck, you may even want to check out single driver crossoverless speakers) to get a feel as to what sounds best to you.  There is no shortage of "experts" on the net who are more than willing to tell you what sounds best, however, none of them can tell you what type of speaker will sound best to you.  

After you check out different types of speakers, you may want to ask people, on this site and others, which internet only speaker sounds most like some of the ones you really like.  Don't completely rule out B&M stores.  There are a lot of great B&M stores who will appreciate your business and treat you fairly.  You may pay a little more, but at least you will get what you like.  Plus, once you have an idea as to what you like, you may want to hook up with some people in your area and do a group audition of gear.  It's a fun way to hear new gear and you can split the cost of shipping the stuff back.    

There are some excellent manufacturers on this site.  All of them are honest and fair and represent the best the trade has to offer, IMO.  It's still good to have an idea as to what sounds best to you and there is only one way to find that out...by listening!  Actually, there is another way.  You can check out some live performances to get a feel for the type of sound that you like.  Don't take anyone's word for it, go out and listen.  Take your time and you will save money in the long run.  Don't buy something just because it's a good deal.  There are lots of expensive speakers (heck CDP's, amps, etc. also) that sound very bad.  There are also lots of great speakers that sound bad on the wrong system or in the wrong room.  

It sounds like I'm preaching and I hope I'm not, but there are too many opinions out there and the trial and error method is a real pain.  Most of the internet manufacturers will steer you towards people in your area who are willing to let you hear their gear, as long as you don't live in an isolated or remote area.  This, in addition to hearing things in decent hifi shops, may be your best bet.

Best of luck!

Jack

[DVV]

Can someone please explain general differences between ribbons and cones.  I'm starting to think about my next set of speakers (still a ways off) and I want to start getting some ideas.  I have Odyssey monos and Tempest so I guess Lorelei are on the list.  VMPS RM-30 are interesting, but I've never heard ribbons.

My room is about 12'W and 14' deep with one wall open to the living room.  I love thumping bass, and I'm skeptical that the 2-way Lorelei can produce what I want.  Ultimately, I want smooth, mus ...

First, let me say Jack(man) said the magic sentence - YOU have to like what you are hearing, or everything else is meaningless. A "good" deal, meaning much percieved value (large speaker, lots of wooden real estate, multiple drivers, etc), may not suit your taste at all, and as Jack pointed out, a good speaker in a wrong system can be a disaster. It's all about synergy, so personal experience has no substitute.

As regards your question, technically speaking, any driver, be it cone, dome, ribbon, Heil air motion transformer, horn, electrostatic, whatever has one signle purpose - to move air. Each will do its job one way or another, producing results which you may or may not like depending on a VERY long list of conditions, from driver quality, via driver marriage over the crossover, to room interaction and your personal taste.

I would suggest you do not think about the technical side of things, but concentrate on listening and hearing. Start with your friends' systems (I'm assuming these will be readily accessible) and then move on to those in your local audio shops - skip no model by anybody which even looks remotely interesting. After that, consult with people on this BBS and by all means on other groups as well. Then, and only then, make your decision, perhaps consulting a few selected individuals you believe hear about the way you do (for example, I know Dan Banquer and Audiojerry here each have a hearing which corresponds well with my own, so to me, they are very reliable sources of info in that respect).

Don't rush it - the longer you prepare, the better your ultimate choice will be, and not only that, you will gather personal experience, which is invaluable in this hobby.

Cheers,
DVV

[Carlman]

Right now I have a pair of GR Research Criterions w/ a ribbon tweeter and a pair of Green Mountain Audio Europa's with silk dome tweeter in my listening room.  

They both have their own sound.  I don't really care what they're made out of as long as they sound 'right' to me.  My goals are similar to yours.  However, you are searching for something to differentiate speakers so you can say 'I don't like speakers with x' so, you can then rule them out.. I hate to say it but, that isn't going to happen.

You can search reviews, read and read and read but... the only thing that will help you decide which is best is you.  Second to that, someone who knows your tastes fairly well and then makes a recommendation to you.  A distant third, online forums.  An even more distant 4th and nearly unreliable, is online reviews.

If you were anywhere near central NC, I'd be glad to demonstrate the differences in a room very similar to yours.  However, it wouldn't be the same as demo'ing in your own room.  But, this would give you a pretty good idea.  

I do hear a general difference between ribbons and domes but, they both accomplish the same thing in the end.  Just different ways of doing it.  Within ribbons, there's different types so, even if you decide you like ribbons, you still have 'flavors'.  Same as domes...

I wish you the best of luck with your purchase.  There's nothing easy about picking 'the right' speaker.  How's THAT for not answering the question?  

-Carl

[warnerwh]

Whatever you do be sure to go listen to ribbons also before you buy.  They are not like you are used to most likely and you may fall in love.  Like the above posts I must agree that only you can choose, just be sure to go listen first as you may be quite surprised/pleased.

[jackman]

DVV and Carl,

I agree with both of you.  Regarding ribbons and cones, I happen to like them both.  I have heard Danny's Criterions and other ribbon speakers and like a lot of things they do.  Excellent detail, great sound.  I also have a pair of ribbon speakers (monitors) and love their on-axis sound.  I also really like my Ellis speakers.  The ribbons are a bit more fussy about setup and have limited vertical dispersion but they sound really good.  To be perfectly honest, I like a lot of things about a lot of speakers.  Unlike many on this site, I really like the sound of Maggies in the right type of room/system.  I also appreciate the sound of large horns (good ones!) with SET amplification and I like the sound of Omega single driver Fostex based speakers and SET amplification.  

I wish I had enough money to have several systems!  I'd have two or three different high quality systems based on different designs.  Point source speakers do certain things really well and line source speakers do other things I really like.  Although I love my Ellis and find them to be the most listenable on most of the stuff I listen to, they are far from perfect.   I've yet to find a speaker that does everything perfect and has a large sweet spot with no room restrictions. Unfortunately, there are compromises you must be willing to make no matter which speakers you choose.  Knowing what you like helps with your decision.  People with "unlimited" budgets have more options but even they have to make compromises in certain areas.  

Without sounding too philosophical, this is a fun journey and sometimes finding out what you like (or how many of your previous conceptions are incorrect!) is part of the fun.  Like musical tastes, my tastes in playback and what sounds good to me have changed over the years.  When I was younger, I wanted speakers that would shake the house...and maybe the house next door.  My current speakers can do neither, but luckily it's no longer part of my criteria.  I like monitors because they are easy to move around and don't have as many issues with bass control.  Plus, they are easy to ship when you decide to sell them.  Hate to admit it but the thought or prospect of trying to ship a massive box across the country has made me think long and hard about purchasing large floor-standers.  

Good luck with your search.  Sorry I wasn't able to offer any specific recommendations.  In the end, you are the one who has to be happy with your purchase.  Luckily, the search is part of the fun!

Jack

[Hantra]

Whatever you do be sure to go listen to ribbons also before you buy.

Agreed. . . There is only one ribbon I have ever heard that I could live with long term, and that's the Piega.  Most other ribbons I've heard have a very unnatural "ringing" to them, and it's just too much after a while.

[Jon L]

Whatever you do be sure to go listen to ribbons also before you buy.

Agreed. . . There is only one ribbon I have ever heard that I could live with long term, and that's the Piega.  Most other ribbons I've heard have a very unnatural "ringing" to them, and it's just too much after a while.

I've heard soft domes that sound great, good, to bad
Same for metal domes
Same for ribbons, planar magnetics, electrostats, horns.

In the end, the implementation is key.  Some ribbons can sound too bright if used with wrong X-over, etc.  Raven's punishing impedance curve can sometimes strain the amp, sounding bad.  Maggies' ribbons are great, except they are voiced too hot usually.  Also some designers try to cheat with smaller ribbons and cross them over way too low, causing severe distortions in ribbon (ringing?) around the usual 1.5 to 2.5kHz range.  

But when you can get yourself a good true ribbon (I like Aurum Cantus G3), take care to use sensible x-over points with steep slope, balance it evenly with the midrange driver, you can definitely have a very natural, non-bright, non-ringins sound.