Good but cheap high-rez DACs?

Atlplasma · « **on:** 7 May 2010, 01:09 pm »

I'm on the hunt for a good but cheap high-rez DAC for my Mac Mini music server. (Hopefully such a creature exists since I can't spend big bucks on this component.)

My Mini is a first generation G4, so it does not have a toslink connection. I currently output music over USB to an inexpensive upsampling DAC. My music is stored on an external drive connected via firewire. The DAC feeds into a Yahama RX-V2700 AVR with outboard Outlaw monoblocks. My speakers are Salk SongTower RTs. (Other components include an ancient but nice sounding Eico ST-70, an Oppo 980 players, and a first generation Sony Blu-Ray player.)

I've recently been trying the Channel D Pure Music player, really liking the sound, and wanting to see what it might be capable of with higher resolution content. So far my search has turned up a few options, such as the Logitech Touch (24/96), the CrypoParts Pop Pulse 1796, and the Maxtrix Mini-i 24/192. I'm also considering the Twisted Pear Buffalo II kit. (Most of these options would require a USB to SP/DIF converter such as the M2Tech Hiface to receive high resolution data from the Mini.) These DACs are all in the sub $350 range.

I would be curious if anyone in this circle has tried any of this DACs or has suggestions for other units in the same price range.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Steve

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 May 2010, 02:02 pm »

Steve,
So is $350 your budget or can folks post about DACs that creep above it? Where is your hard stop? Thx
Ted

P.S. Remember, folks, Steve wanst a HIREZ DAC, meaning it handles 24/48+ natively (not upsampled).

Atlplasma · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 May 2010, 02:14 pm »

Hi Ted:

That's a fair question. I'd rather stretch my budget than buy something that wouldn't satisfy. I picked $350 because the examples I provided all retail for less than that amount. But if someone wants to argue that it's necessary to spend $1000+ to acquire a DAC that will deliver acceptable results, I'm open to being persuaded.

Steve

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 May 2010, 02:17 pm »

You might also consider using a pro audio interface, like Channel D recommends for Pure Vinyl. It give you inputs and outputs and can add a lot of bang for the buck, but be a little bit complicated to use.

I've had good results with a Focusrite Saffire 26 Pro I/O that I bought on close out for around your price range. It is a firewire 24/192 ADC/DAC and I have been quite happy with the sound, although I've had a few buggy issues I've had to work out. If I were buying today, I think I would be looking closely at the TC Electronic Impact Twin.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/TC-Electronic-Impact-Twin-Next-Generation-FireWire-Interface?sku=584562

What I'm using:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Focusrite-Saffire-PRO-26-IO-8Channel-FireWire-Interface-?sku=241135#used

Jim C

roscoeiii · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 May 2010, 03:39 pm »

The HRT Streamer USB DACs are getting fantastic reviews. At $350 you could get the Streamer II+. When I talked to HRT about their new line of DACs, they told me that the new non-+ version of the Streamer II was a better choice than the original Streamer+. The II serives now has async USB and can handle hi-rez. MusicDirect carries them, so you could take advantage of their 30-day trial period.

Lots of great reviews of the original lines and the new streamer. Check the spinoff of the DAC shootout thread here, and 6moons for starters.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 May 2010, 03:46 pm »

The Beresford DAC is High Rez (methinks). It's $279, has USB, coax and optical inputs. It sounds tremendously good for $279 and you can get them on Audiogon. I think Beresford occasionally puts demo units on agon for around $220. Take a look. I can't imagine anything better for the price.

srb · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 May 2010, 03:56 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 7 May 2010, 03:46 pm

The Beresford DAC is High Rez (methinks). It's $279, has USB, coax and optical inputs. It sounds tremendously good for $279 and you can get them on Audiogon. I think Beresford occasionally puts demo units on agon for around $220. Take a look. I can't imagine anything better for the price.

The Beresford TC-7520 is 24-bit/96KHz capable through the optical or coax inputs, and 16-bit/48KHz through the USB input.

http://www.beresford-dac.com/beresford-tc-7520

Steve

batmanslc2 · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 May 2010, 03:56 pm »

Steve, see my take on Matrix mini-i on this site comparing to MF v-dac, those are the onlu two i have tried, head fi has so many postings on this stuff it is overwhelming.

ted_b · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 May 2010, 04:14 pm »

Yes, agreed that the Pro might be a great low-risk (30 day trial) intro into 24/96.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hrt2/pro.html

As afar as $1k-$2k max, the ones to keep in mind are:
*Wyred4Sound DAC2 (24/192 via USB)..due for release next week. EJ, Rick and co know how to build an analog stage, so the Sabre DAC chips and their back-end should be quite good.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred4/dac.html
*Metric Halo ULN-2. Again, 24/96 max but a pro piece that has tremendous pedigree.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/568876-REG/Metric_Halo_000_50006_ULN_2_2d_FireWire.html
*Antelope's new Zodiac series. They make some of the best external clocks and have a great pro reputation.
http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products_integrity.html

bregez · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 May 2010, 04:25 pm »

I am using a V-DAC in my system currently.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-DAC/V-DAC.asp
It complements my amp (ST-70) well. It is missing the brightness associated with some of the other cheap SS dac's. It is well worth the price. Occasionally, Audio Advisor has open box specials where you can pick one up for $230.00. I like the small case it comes in, the last thing I need is another full size component on my rack.

Atlplasma · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 May 2010, 05:15 pm »

Hi Jim:

Thanks for the interesting idea. Do you know if the TC Impact is compatible with Firewire 400 and if you can daisy chain a Firewire drive? The manual isn't clear on the first point, and it seems to recommend against putting two devices on one bus. Just wondering if you have any real-world experience with these potential issues.

Steve

Quote from: bunnyma357 on 7 May 2010, 02:17 pm

You might also consider using a pro audio interface, like Channel D recommends for Pure Vinyl. It give you inputs and outputs and can add a lot of bang for the buck, but be a little bit complicated to use.

I've had good results with a Focusrite Saffire 26 Pro I/O that I bought on close out for around your price range. It is a firewire 24/192 ADC/DAC and I have been quite happy with the sound, although I've had a few buggy issues I've had to work out. If I were buying today, I think I would be looking closely at the TC Electronic Impact Twin.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/TC-Electronic-Impact-Twin-Next-Generation-FireWire-Interface?sku=584562

What I'm using:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Focusrite-Saffire-PRO-26-IO-8Channel-FireWire-Interface-?sku=241135#used

Jim C

Atlplasma · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 May 2010, 05:22 pm »

Thanks. I'll investigate. I read good things about using an asynchronous implementation on USB. The 24/96 isn't necessarily a deal killer for me and being able to trial the device would certainly be a plus.

Steve

Quote from: roscoeiii on 7 May 2010, 03:39 pm

The HRT Streamer USB DACs are getting fantastic reviews. At $350 you could get the Streamer II+. When I talked to HRT about their new line of DACs, they told me that the new non-+ version of the Streamer II was a better choice than the original Streamer+. The II serives now has async USB and can handle hi-rez. MusicDirect carries them, so you could take advantage of their 30-day trial period.

Lots of great reviews of the original lines and the new streamer. Check the spinoff of the DAC shootout thread here, and 6moons for starters.

BobC · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 May 2010, 05:25 pm »

FWIW, I enjoy my Cambridge Audio DACMagic, which fits your needs.

Atlplasma · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 May 2010, 05:58 pm »

Thanks, Bob. It looks like the DACMagic uses upsampling, correct? I'd like to find a solution that handles the higher resolutions at their native rate.

Steve

Quote from: BobC on 7 May 2010, 05:25 pm

FWIW, I enjoy my Cambridge Audio DACMagic, which fits your needs.

BobC · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 May 2010, 06:11 pm »

yeah, it upsamples to 24/192. But it'll take native 24/96 if that helps.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/specifications.php?PID=320&Title=Specifications

boead · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 May 2010, 06:47 pm »

where does the 24/96 source material come from?

ted_b · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 May 2010, 06:51 pm »

Quote from: boead on 7 May 2010, 06:47 pm

where does the 24/96 source material come from?

DVD-Audio discs and rips (up to 24/192)
DVD-Video (audio portion) discs and rips (up to 24/96; like Neil Young greatest hits, Live at Massey Hall, etc)
downloadable files from a plethora of sources (HDTracks, HDTT, etc...see list in this Circle)

boead · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 May 2010, 07:01 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 7 May 2010, 06:51 pm

DVD-Audio discs and rips (up to 24/192)
DVD-Video (audio portion) discs and rips (up to 24/96; like Neil Young greatest hits, Live at Massey Hall, etc)
downloadable files from a plethora of sources (HDTracks, HDTT, etc...see list in this Circle)

I was under the impression that DVD-A is locked from outputting anything digital except for Linear PCM (Redbook 16/44) with very few exceptions. I know (from working in Post Production) that most audio that is used in video is upsampled from Redbook unless it was specifically recorded higher. I know most of the audio tracks on live performances comes off the board and is usually 16/44 native and then upsampled to whatever is needed afterwards.

I know some of the places (websites) I’ve seen 24/96 or 24/192 music are recorded on one of the many portable live recording devices, im sure much of the studio stuff of mainstream or commercial music found at anything above 16/44 is likely upsampled with little exception.

ted_b · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 May 2010, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: boead on 7 May 2010, 07:01 pm

I was under the impression that DVD-A is locked from outputting anything digital except for Linear PCM (Redbook 16/44) with very few exceptions. I know (from working in Post Production) that most audio that is used in video is upsampled from Redbook unless it was specifically recorded higher. I know most of the audio tracks on live performances comes off the board and is usually 16/44 native and then upsampled to whatever is needed afterwards.

I know some of the places (websites) I’ve seen 24/96 or 24/192 music are recorded on one of the many portable live recording devices, im sure much of the studio stuff of mainstream or commercial music found at anything above 16/44 is likely upsampled with little exception.

Those concerns are real, but now fewer and farther between. And DVD-A ripping is unprotected and simple (see my tutorial). Welcome to HiRez.

Atlplasma · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 May 2010, 09:02 pm »

Quote from: bregez on 7 May 2010, 04:25 pm

I am using a V-DAC in my system currently.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-DAC/V-DAC.asp
It complements my amp (ST-70) well. It is missing the brightness associated with some of the other cheap SS dac's. It is well worth the price. Occasionally, Audio Advisor has open box specials where you can pick one up for $230.00. I like the small case it comes in, the last thing I need is another full size component on my rack.

This is an upsampling DAC, correct?