Building a new system, options, and comments?

chadh · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 01:02 pm »

Pete,

None of these options is tubey enough. Here's my suggestion.

Pick up the ridiculously priced DeHavilland Ultraverve pre-amp that somebody is listing here.
Pick up the ridiculously priced Music Reference RM10 that somebody is listing here.
Pick up an additional Music Reference RM10 somewhere.
Run the Music Reference RM10s as monoblocks.

Also get the Tranquility DAC.

Actually, I'm half tempted to sell most of my stuff and get the Ultraverve and the RM10 myself.

Chad

*Scotty* · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 06:01 pm »

I think the volume controls in the DAC/Pre and STE Pre will be quite transparent to the source. Of much greater concern is the output stage of the DAC/Pre being comparable to the STE Pre. The STE Pre is a pretty serious attempt at building a very good buffer/pre with very little in the way of compromises. My money is on it having a superior ability deliver the goods sonically. It should have a bigger power supply and a more robust output stage than the DAC/Pre. It is not a compromise product that is trying to do two things at once. If you are serious about doing business with Wryd4S,then you should discuss the pros and cons of the two products with them. The glowing review by 6moons indicates the STE Pre runs in very fast company and is seriously under priced for the performance it delivers.
The big Salk HT4 speakers look interesting and would get my vote for the Salk of choice if you are committed to the Salk brand.
My 2bits worth,being well past the 2cents stage at this point.
Scotty

srb · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 24 Apr 2010, 06:01 pm

I think the volume controls in the DAC/Pre and STE Pre will be quite transparent to the source. Of much greater concern is the output stage of the DAC/Pre being comparable to the STE Pre. The STE Pre is a pretty serious attempt at building a very good buffer/pre with very little in the way of compromises. My money is on it having a superior ability deliver the goods sonically. It should have a bigger power supply and a more robust output stage than the DAC/Pre. It is not a compromise product that is trying to do two things at once. If you are serious about doing business with Wryd4S,then you should discuss the pros and cons of the two products with them. The glowing review by 6moons indicates the STE Pre runs in very fast company and is seriously under priced for the performance it delivers.

The STP Preamp is a "passive/active" design that runs "passive" (actually buffered), then switches to active (8dB gain) as the volume is increased. As far as I know, the DAC-2 does not provide any gain.

Steve

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #23 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 11:06 am »

Quote from: chadh on 24 Apr 2010, 01:02 pm

Pete,

None of these options is tubey enough. Here's my suggestion.

Pick up the ridiculously priced DeHavilland Ultraverve pre-amp that somebody is listing here.
Pick up the ridiculously priced Music Reference RM10 that somebody is listing here.
Pick up an additional Music Reference RM10 somewhere.
Run the Music Reference RM10s as monoblocks.

Also get the Tranquility DAC.

Actually, I'm half tempted to sell most of my stuff and get the Ultraverve and the RM10 myself.

Chad

70 watts mono is way under my comfort level.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 11:07 am »

Quote from: srb on 24 Apr 2010, 06:23 pm

The STP Preamp is a "passive/active" design that runs "passive" (actually buffered), then switches to active (8dB gain) as the volume is increased. As far as I know, the DAC-2 does not provide any gain.

Steve

That's interesting, Then why would they have a volume control on it? Same logic as a SB volume control?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #25 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 11:11 am »

Scotty, once again, great insights.

How do you guys feel about an all solid state system with say a Wyred STE pre, a Wyred or Tranquility DAC, even the EE DAC, and Cherry amp?? If I'm not going to get any gain out of the Dodd buffer, then I might need a true preamp, expecially if the DAC/Pre combos are compromises.

zybar · « **Reply #26 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 02:55 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 25 Apr 2010, 11:11 am

Scotty, once again, great insights.

How do you guys feel about an all solid state system with say a Wyred STE pre, a Wyred or Tranquility DAC, even the EE DAC, and Cherry amp?? If I'm not going to get any gain out of the Dodd buffer, then I might need a true preamp, expecially if the DAC/Pre combos are compromises.

I wouldn't want it, but not sure how that helps you Pete.

I have listened to the STP in three different systems and would generally agree that it compares to units costing more than its asking price. I do think that it needs to be paired with tubed amplification in order to not sound too lean or clinical.

Ultimately, I decided not to go with the STP and instead went with a Plinius M-8 preamp. I felt the Plinius did a better job of fleshing things out and producing a sound that I connected with more. If I could afford a much more expensive preamp, I would love to get either of the Atma-Sphere preamps. Also, I auditioned the Parasound JC 2 and thought it was excellent and would happily use it in my system.

George

*Scotty* · « **Reply #27 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 04:00 pm »

The volume control is on the SB and the DAC2 because most amplifiers when combined with the average loudspeaker in the average
home have enough gain that frequently someone can get by without spending the money on a full fledged preamp to do this job for them. Most line level devices put out 2.0volts and this frequently enough to drive an amplifier into outputting it's full rated power and then some. That being said, most devices do not have an adequate output stage to drive an amplifier directly without sounding short on dynamics and weak in the bass for starters. Life is full of compromises and people have make them. If the components down stream from the source loose very little information a lean or clinical sound should be avoidable if your source outputs enough of the information originally captured in the recording. This may still come down to a matter of taste as to whether you feel the sound from the system has enough body. You need to have conversations on the phone, not email,with designers at Wyrd4Sound and the Digital Amp Company to be certain that you are looking for the same thing from reproduced sound as their designers. If you are on the same page as they are then you could buy with the confidence that you will like what you hear from their equipment. Until you have these conversations our speculation here about what might constitute a good sounding system will be just that,speculation.
Scotty

Nuance · « **Reply #28 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 04:59 pm »

Concerning preamps:

Audio Research SP17 - http://www.audioresearch.com/SP17.html
Rogue Audio Perseus - http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Perseus.htm
VTL 2L-2.5 - http://www.vtl.com/pages/preamplifiers.html#TL-2.5
Blue Circle Tube Pre - http://www.bluecircle.com/index.php?page_id=1778
Conrad Johnson ET2 - http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/et2.html
Modwright 9.0SE - http://www.modwright.com/products/3

K Shep · « **Reply #29 on:** 26 Apr 2010, 04:55 am »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 25 Apr 2010, 11:11 am

If I'm not going to get any gain out of the Dodd buffer, then I might need a true preamp, expecially if the DAC/Pre combos are compromises.

I was hoping you would say this. With all of the wonderful tube pre's available why not build a this system around one of them. IMO a preamp is the bedrock of a great system.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #30 on:** 26 Apr 2010, 01:07 pm »

My internet is out at the house so could not respond sooner. Yes, I need tubes in the system for sure and it probably makes more sense to have a tube pre than a ss pre and tubed dac, correct? I'm laser focused on the Cherry amps though. When I had the 4800A I really liked that thing and it's one of the few components I want back in my system.

I am trying to spend as little as possible and even willing to go without remote volume control in the pre.

Anyone ever use a Belles pre? I have used his amps only. Edit: no truly balanced per Soundstage review, so probably out of consideration. Also have high gain which could cause hissssss.

Edit: I'd like to get a preamp with true balanced outputs since the Cherry amps are balanced only and I'd like to take advantage of that.

K Shep · « **Reply #31 on:** 26 Apr 2010, 01:53 pm »

Take a look at Balanced Audio Technology-BAT VK-3ix tube pre. No experience with Belles.

Are you using the computer you mentioned earlier as the source for the DAC? Wavelength has a couple DAC's (tube) non-balanced however. If you are looknig for a balanced DAC, well, I'd have to recommend the Ayre.

Aesthetix builds a great tube pre amp also...the Calypso

zybar · « **Reply #32 on:** 26 Apr 2010, 10:49 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 26 Apr 2010, 01:07 pm

My internet is out at the house so could not respond sooner. Yes, I need tubes in the system for sure and it probably makes more sense to have a tube pre than a ss pre and tubed dac, correct? I'm laser focused on the Cherry amps though. When I had the 4800A I really liked that thing and it's one of the few components I want back in my system.

I am trying to spend as little as possible and even willing to go without remote volume control in the pre.

Anyone ever use a Belles pre? I have used his amps only. Edit: no truly balanced per Soundstage review, so probably out of consideration. Also have high gain which could cause hissssss.

Edit: I'd like to get a preamp with true balanced outputs since the Cherry amps are balanced only and I'd like to take advantage of that.

Pete,

Not too many truly balanced tube preamps out there at any price, let alone at low prices.

I know that the Atma-Sphere preamps are truly balanced.

I think that the BAT and Aesthetix are truly balanced, but I am not 100% certain.

George

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #33 on:** 26 Apr 2010, 10:55 pm »

I looked at the BAT stuff and it looks like quality stuff. There's also a Supratek on Agon that looks pretty tempting. I missed the VAC preamp that was listed there.

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #34 on:** 27 Apr 2010, 09:13 pm »

Here's a related thread that might be helpful:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79614.0

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #35 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 12:15 pm »

Latest developments: Cherry Jr. amp purchased, and a deposit on the EE dac has been made. Now in the hunt for a tubed pre with balanced out in the $1500 or under range. Remote not an absolute must.

K Shep · « **Reply #36 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 12:45 pm »

BAT VK-51

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1276180422&/Bat-Tube-Pre-VK-5i-Pre-Amp-upg

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #37 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 12:50 pm »

Quote from: K Shep on 29 Apr 2010, 12:45 pm

BAT VK-51

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1276180422&/Bat-Tube-Pre-VK-5i-Pre-Amp-upg

I've conversed with him and he is a straight shooter. I'm going to think on it over the AKFest show. This model, while 10 years old, looks like it is a classic with the accolades it has received and the technology inside it. I'm not sure the newer models have necessarily improved over it from what I can read. So yeah, I have my eye on it Shep.

K Shep · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 12:56 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 29 Apr 2010, 12:50 pm

I've conversed with him and he is a straight shooter. I'm going to think on it over the AKFest show. This model, while 10 years old, looks like it is a classic with the accolades it has received and the technology inside it. I'm not sure the newer models have necessarily improved over it from what I can read. So yeah, I have my eye on it Shep.

Don't mean to beat the horse but BAT makes a great product, I didn't realize the unit is a decade in age. At the price point with remote it may be tough to beat. I'm interested in the result, I'll stay tuned.

TomS · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 01:06 pm »

Pete,

I snagged an older Atma-Sphere balanced linestage around that price, but I had to hunt a long time. It was definitely worth it, especially after putting in new V-Caps. The whole AS line is all about full true balanced operation, much like BAT's philosophy though very different topologies. Love the preamp in my system though (no remote).

Tom