Building a new system, options, and comments?

Big Red Machine · « **on:** 23 Apr 2010, 03:58 pm »

I hate threads where we are asked to give our opinions on what someone should buy, so I'm going to start my own.

I "think" based on my new love for "tubiness" in the signal path I want to introduce a component in the system that will do that. On the other shoulder is the anti-tube mini-me telling me that many of today's electronics are pretty darned good without being tubed.

I have been contemplating several paths based on costs, simplicity, and recent new products with cool new capabilities/features. I attempted to put a system together a few months back and couldn't make it happen and I may be getting closer now. We'll see.

1. SB --- Wyred DAC2/Pre ---- Cherry amp ----- speakers

2. SB --- Wyred DAC1 ---- Dodd tubed buffer ----- Cherry amp ---- speakers

3. SB ---- Eastern El. tubed DAC/pre ----- Cherry amp ---- speakers

4. Computer (have a dedicated Vista machine in the room now) ---- Tranquility DAC ----- Dodd buffer ---- Cherry Amp

And the wild card: SB --- Wyred DAC1 or EE DAC -------- transformer-based passive pre ----- Cherry amp

And of course the $64 question is system synergy. And that remains an unknown until we give it a try. Amp-wise, you know me, I like mega-watt power, so I chose the Cherrys for their smooth delivery with speed-of-light quickness.

What say you?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 04:48 pm »

Much like yourself, I imagine, I would love to hear a comparison of the EE and the w4s. I do really like that the w4s has an upgrade path for both their digital and analog stages as better options become available.

And on the other hand, the op-amp or tube switch on the EE could be nice as you could easily let the tubiness come and go...

OK, probably not helping much. But often my 2cents are a bit less than helpful.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 07:04 pm »

I felt a little like others were in the same thought process as me about which DAC to try out or wait for more users to review them first, etc.

macrojack · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 07:10 pm »

Your system would benefit immeasurably if you bought everything I'm trying to sell.

P.S. Don't forget to pay full price.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 01:03 am »

DougSmith · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 01:28 am »

what speakers?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 01:31 am »

Something Salk. So 86 to 88 db probably.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 01:33 am »

Have you looked to see what is on sale at Best Buy?

Man that joke still doesn't get old....

kip_ · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 01:58 am »

Have you considered the AVA Vision Dac/Pre? Perhaps throw in a tube buffer if you absolutely have to have tubes?

DougSmith · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 02:06 am »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 24 Apr 2010, 01:31 am

Something Salk. So 86 to 88 db probably.

I'd recommend considering something Geddes. 95 db probalby.

Mariusz · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 02:08 am »

Amp and speakers match - essential but I don't have to tell you that.

I would consider including preamp or buffer in your setup.
DAC with pre-section (variable out) is great but hardly a replacement for good preamp.

•Dodd buffer might be a good choice. (if it's as good as its bigger brother)
Preamp I had was very transparent but responsive to tube rolling.
•Cherry amp is also very good. Clean, dynamic, powerful. Unfortunatly I have heard it only on two separate occasions in unfamiliar systems. But it did sound promising.

Not familiar with EE DAC or W4S sound.

*on the cheap
- Dodd buffer kit (no need to upgrade)
- Digital amp mono-kit (if you like it - upgrade to Cherry)
- DAC ? You can borrow my Maverick (if you like it - you can try EE DAC which might be somewhat better) if you go with PC setup, Tranquility DAC might be a better choice (good reviews but no personal exp. )

benefit- little or no lose to your wallet.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 02:43 am »

Thank you Mariusz. I am not quite sure, as you mentioned, whether a DAC/Pre combo means I get less than a stellar Pre section. Also not sure I need much more than a volume control at that point. The Wyred unint looks like more overall features and higher level content with the DAC/Pre over the straight DAC.

I was thinking the DAC should accept both the SB and CDP transport and the buffer would be the pre, giving me the tube element. If the DAC had multiple inputs then I don't really need any switching as those are my only sources.

Speakers will be Salk, no doubt.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 02:59 am »

You may have a problem with compatibility between a transformer-based passive pre and the Cherry amp. All TVCs have a potential problem, see graph

This ultrasonic peaking in in the output can cause many amplifiers extreme distress and it may present a problem to the Cherry amp.
If you are seriously considering a TVC,you should contact Tommy and ask him if there could be a problem with compatibility.
The Cherry amp is one of the few switching amps I would look at based on its design,specifically its 60kHz filter pole. The output filter's influence on the amplifiers high frequency reproduction may be negligible. I also like the large linear supply, the amp will deliver its rated rms power into the load nearly indefinitely, unlike some other switching amps which only meet their power spec on a short term basis. You might consider the new Gallo Reference 3.5 it is apparently transformed in its performance compared to the 3.1.
I would look very hard at Wyrd4Sound's STP-SE (Stereo Pre-amp SPECIAL EDITION). This preamp is fully balanced and is completely compatible with the Cherry amp. It also has a review by 6moons See link http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred2/preamp.html
Good luck building your system.
Scotty

Mariusz · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 03:22 am »

I quess it (having preamp) has to do with better impedance matching and resolving the faintest of details/information on the recording.
Volume control implemented in most DACs under 1K (some expensive ones too) are simple attenuators. Passive preamps are great but be careful with your system matching, wiring (capacitance, length..)

Then again, not all preamps are created equal. But great preamp can make your system that much better.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 03:30 am »

If you feel that a passive pre is the way to go, you could also look into the impedence matching B1 passive pre from First Watt.

Mariusz · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 03:42 am »

If needed, I just got B-1 Nelson Pass buffer build by fellow AC member.
It improved things quite a bit when used with Maverick DAC.
Ofcause volume on Maverick was bypassed when used with B-1.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 03:57 am »

My picks in a line-up form
SB---W4S DAC-1---W4S STP-SE (Stereo Pre-amp SPECIAL EDITION) ---- Cherry Plus amp ----- speakers
W4S STP-SE is an active buffer that automatically switches in gain as the volume goes past the unity gain position. Apparently with most line level sources you will operate as a zero gain active buffer and never get into the gain mode.
Scotty

Nuance · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 04:41 am »

I don't have anything to add as I'm not a tube guy (yet), but I'll be closely following this thread. I look forward to seeing what your new system ends up being.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 10:23 am »

Good inputs Scotty. How do you think the vol control of the STE Pre would compare to the DAC/Pre from Wyred? I'm not sure I understand the lingo they use in both descriptions.

lcrim · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Apr 2010, 12:06 pm »

The amp-speaker combination is the primary consideration imo. Seems like there is undue emphasis on the source. If you are happy w/ the amp/speaker combination then you can and probably will change the source many times.