[Mudjock]

Over the years, I have been fairly adept at scrounging for good deals and values.  During the last couple of years, my budget music rig has morphed from simple to unwieldy....

My core system consists of a Simaudio Celeste P4001SE preamp connected to a Samson SX2400 power amp (plenty of power for any speaker I build and surprisingly good sonics) via a Samson S-Convert interface. 

My sources are an old, modded Toshiba 3960 dvd player and a WDTV-Live, which both go to a Monarchy DIP 24/96 and then to a TDA-1543 based NOS DAC that I picked up from someone over at Head-Fi.  The DIP 24/96 has a rear panel switch that allows me to select either source (the WDTV Live has optical coax out).

Since I  only have digital sources, I was thinking I could update and simplify a lot by getting a single piece that has preamp/dac functions (volume and source selection) with enough jitter rejection that I don't need the DIP and balanced outputs so that I don't need the S-convert.  Possible candidates for this I have been considering include older uber high-end A/V processors (i.e. Meridian, TAG, Proceed), a second hand Benchmark DAC or newer Asian DAC (advantage being newer D/A technology, disadvantage being no remote and fewer inputs).

Would anyone like to take a shot steering me in a direction that would give me the most bang for my buck with sonics being a somewhat higher priority than convenience?



   

[eclein]

Not sure if this would fit your needs or not, these units are getting favorable reviews and are priced right @$200ish (I am not affiliated with this company just an average consumer), they present many options at least for me...

http://www.mavaudio.com/base/

[Mudjock]

That looks like a good candidate.  I'll have to do some reading to get a better idea of how that would do sonically versus what I have now or other available options. 

On the plus side, the reviews seem pretty good and the price is great.  On the minus side, it doesn't have balanced outputs or remote volume control.  If I could spend a few hundred more and get a major step up either in sound quality or in convenience, that would still be within budget...

[eclein]

Got ya, forgot about the remote, duh....

[srb]

On the minus side, it doesn't have balanced outputs or remote volume control.  If I could spend a few hundred more and get a major step up either in sound quality or in convenience, that would still be within budget...

Unfortunately, to include the features of balanced outputs and remote volume control, there isn't much to be found under the cost of the Benchmark DAC1 HDR ($1900 MSRP), which also does include remote input selection.
 
Steve

[Mudjock]

I figured as much...  If forgoing the remote and/or the balanced outputs can give me much better sound for the $, I can live with that.  I am aware that adding remote volume control introduces significant issues with either cost or sound quality.

[srb]

I figured as much...  If forgoing the remote and/or the balanced outputs can give me much better sound for the $, I can live with that.  I am aware that adding remote volume control introduces significant issues with either cost or sound quality.

The Eastern Electric MiniMax Tube DAC might be worth taking a look at.  It has single ended RCA outputs and no remote, but it does have front panel input selection, manual volume control and selectable tube/SS output.  It sells for ~$800.
 
The DAC is based on the ESS Sabre32 9018 chip, which has on-chip jitter reduction circuitry.  The only source so far that does not play well with it is the 2nd generation Apple Airport Express Wireless 'N', which apparently has such high jitter that it is out of the range of the chip.
 
The rather lengthy thread that goes from upcoming product announcement to enduser design feature requests to production and delivery:
Eastern Electric DAC
 
And the user review thread from recipients of the first production units:
Eastern Electric DAC Reviews
 
Steve
 

[Mudjock]

The MiniMax and the Maverick both look interesting - compact, yet flexible.  At those price points, the EE MiniMax would have to be a step above something like a Benchmark DAC1 or a used Proceed AVP in sound quality - whereas the Maverick would be competing with something like a used Lexicon DC series processor (not a completely inconceivable option given that I am not bringing any analog sources in) or just keeping my existing setup.

[Mudjock]

I decided to give the Maverick D1 a try - it's low cost and flexible enough that it could be useful in several applications if it doesn't wind up being the answer for my main system.  I'll report back when I've received the unit and had a chance to do some listening.

[Mariusz]

I decided to give the Maverick D1 a try - it's low cost and flexible enough that it could be useful in several applications if it doesn't wind up being the answer for my main system.  I'll report back when I've received the unit and had a chance to do some listening.

Do not forget to get some tube replacement and recommended op amps.
(GE from fellow AC member will run you about $10 and pair of op amps [dac & headphone amp] another $10 from Digikey - see Maverck thread)
 


Mariusz

[Mudjock]

That's a good point - I have a NOS GE tube coming, but still need to order the op amps.

[Mariusz]

GE is a notch or two better then stock.
I've WE seating here but will test it in Maverick probably next week. Then, Bendix. (this tube is a bit too pricey to recommend - around $100 a pop)
 
 

[Mudjock]

I think I'll start out with the GE tube.  An OPA627 arrived today - LT1364 is backordered at Digikey.  I may stil consider a better tube - Bendix would have some nostolgic value as the company I work for was once a Bendix division.  Otherwise, WE, National, or Raytheon (windmill getter) seem like interesting options.  Also thinking about the Matrix Mini-i (also seems enthusiastically reviewed and has balance outputs) for a comparison.

[Mudjock]

My Maverick has arrived...  I hooked it up, let it warm up for a while and gave it a listen in its stock form.

To reprise - the Maverick D1 is replacing a DIY NOS DAC (using TDA-1543, likely comparable to a Scott Nixon DAC-Kit) and a Simaudio Celeste P4001se preamp (bulletproof SS preamp, pretty transparent compared to run-of-the-mill stuff but not quite "magical").  My source is a WDTV Live connected optically to the DAC.  From the preamp, I am going single-ended to a Samson S-Convert and then balanced into a Samson SX2400 power amp.  Speakers are DIY (see my avatar) using Bohlender Graebener planar tweeters and mids with dual Dayton Reference 6" aluminum cone woofers below.  These excel at detail resolution, so should be good to facilitate comparisons.  I have a number of other speakers I could swap in later to look for synergies - but I will worry about that later...

I have never had tube gear in my system before, so some of my thoughts may simply be typical tube vs. ss generalities...

First off, this was easy to listen to.  Low, mid, high balance was very good.  I had some female vocals going early (Jennifier Warnes, Diana Krall, Toni Braxton, Sade, even Sheryl Crow).  Vocals were very clear and natural sounding, but relative to my previous setup, I had more trouble pinpointing individual performers (melody vs. harmony). 

Bass was full-bodied, but a little sloppy compared to what I am used to.  Overall this was not a big problem and I could live with the level of bass resolution - my speakers tend toward leanness. 

The BG drivers resolve things like cymbals and plucked strings very well, and I immediately noticed that details were smeared a little on cymbals.  Plucked strings and percussion suffered a little from softened transients compared to my previous setup.  Tonal balance remained very good, though - so this was still listenable.

One of the Diana Krall pieces had a cello solo, which sounded absolutely fantastic through the Maverick.  If I wanted to sell my system to someone for maximum profit - that is the track I would play. 

As I went through more of my collection, I noticed a little of what I would characterize as "glare" on some vocals - nothing awful, just something that is completely absent in my previous setup.

As things warmed up further, I did start to sense more air and soundstage depth come into the mix, although this never got to the same level as when I was running my NOS DAC with a Monarchy DIP in front of it.

I have a number of variables to play with, so stay tuned.  The next steps include (not necessarily in this order):

1.  Replace stock tube with GE NOS tube (on hand).
2.  Try Raytheon windmill getter tube (on the way).  From what I have read elsewhere, this should be a good choice for my tastes.
3.  Try the SS output.
4.  Replace DAC op-amp with OPA627 (on hand).  My understanding is that this will impact the SS output only.
5.  Try the LT1364 DAC op-amp (on the way).
6.  Try the Monarchy DIP in front of the Maverick to see if it has any impact.

[Mudjock]

I can report that replacing the stock tube with the GE NOS tube made a large difference.   The glare is for all practical purposes gone, cymbals sound like cymbals.  I still have to do some critical comparisions between the tubed and SS outputs - now that they are on sufficiently equal footing to allow a comparison.  After that, hopefully the LT1364 dac op amp and Raytheon tube will have arrived to push things even further in the right direction.  All-in-all, I'm very impressed.  The Maverick D1 has an awful lot to offer in terms of sonics and flexibility (especially at $200 for a dac and preamp).

[Mudjock]

I apologize in advance for dredging up an old thread - but there have been some developments in my search for a cheap and cheerful two channel digital source setup.  SInce I last posted, I upgraded my Maverick D1 to the LT1364 op amp and the Raytheon tube.  These were improvements, not as dramatic as replacing the stock tube but still improvements in resolution, dynamics.  The other dramatic improvement came by adding the Monarchy DIP 24/96 to the mix.  This brought a big, 3D soundstage to the mix and also tightened up the sound to make impacts like drum hits and finger snapping sound sound very real.  This is a sound I could easily live with for a long time - but the setup is not all that much more convenient than my previous one:

WD Live (optical) and DVD player (coax) into the DIP (I have to select which one by the rear panel).  Then the DIP goes into the Maverick, which outputs through the Samson S-convert into the Samson amp.  So, I was able to replace the Sim Audio pre and NOS dac with the Maverick and get sound which I prefer slightly overall.  The old setup had somewhat better bass resolution and slam, but the new setup has more extended highs and the a nice amount of body/sweetness from mids on up.

In the meantime, it seems as though Emotiva was reading my initial post.  I don't really have any delusions about being that influential, but the XDA-1 is a fully-balanced remote controlled dac/pre right at the price point I was thinking about.  I didn't hear about it for a while, but eventually got on the preorder list.  I finally received the XDA-1 last week and have been putting it through its paces.  Setup is WDTV optical into XDA-1, which feeds balanced outputs directly into Samson amp (SX-2400).

The immediate impression was that things sound really "clear" (my 10 year-old's unadulterated opinion).  I noticed very clean midbass, nice rendition of microdetail across the audio spectrum, big 3D soundstage with air around individual instruments/performers, and good balance (extension without too much emphasis on anything).  The only thing possibly missing is that impacts seem slightly less prominent than with Maverick setup.  I added the DIP to the mix, and somewhat surprisingly didn't hear a big improvement (a little more slam, but lost some of the microdetail and no real improvement in soundstage - which was already very good).  One of my initial thoughts was that a more modern DAC would eliminate the need for the DIP - and thankfully that appears to be the case here.

Overall, it looks like the the Emo will be a keeper for me.  It does everything I wanted it to do with little or no tradeoffs that I have to live with.  Understandably, there are likely better things out there at double or more the cost of the XDA-1 - but I'm very impressed at what they've been able to do for $349 (preorder price was $299).  My next challenge will be to find a reasonably priced power center that can use the XDA-1's 12V trigger to turn everything else on and off.  Then I can control the whole thing with one of my Harmony remotes.

[JLM]

Thanks for posting your impressions.

Not surprised that you've found that digital technology has advanced (even with a simplier/cheaper MSRP) rig.

Glad you're happy, but do be aware that those products do not trump other modern, abet more expensive pre/DACs like the Eastern Electric DAC or Wyred for Sound DAC II.  As apparently good as the rest of your system is, you may want to give them a try.  OTOH this technology is moving quickly and loses value just as quickly (as you've found out).

[Mudjock]

Thanks for posting your impressions.

Not surprised that you've found that digital technology has advanced (even with a simplier/cheaper MSRP) rig.

Glad you're happy, but do be aware that those products do not trump other modern, abet more expensive pre/DACs like the Eastern Electric DAC or Wyred for Sound DAC II.  As apparently good as the rest of your system is, you may want to give them a try.  OTOH this technology is moving quickly and loses value just as quickly (as you've found out).

We're in full agreement there.  Both the Maverick and the Emotiva offer a lot for the money.  If I recall correctly, Maverick Audio stated that they used an older dac chipset that "still sounded very good".  I found that to be true, provided that a decent tube was used in the buffer stage and the source feeding the Maverick was relatively jitter-free.  The Emotiva has a more modern dac chipset that seems to handle jitter much more effectively and has a significant advantage for me in being a fully balanced design with plenty of output to drive my pro amp without any need for secondary boost.  The build quality of the unit and remote are quite impressive also.   

At this point, I really don't want to spend what it would take to get the feature set of the Emotiva with an even better dac or output stage.  Maybe a few years down the road...