[dunlapk]

Other than more inputs, remote, larger power supply and pre-amp outputs. What is will the M901 bring the the table that the ONE.2 will not?

[virtue]

The M901 is a cost-no-object and space-no-object machine.  We were able to put bigger bulk caps (that 4-pin Panasonic is a beauty), a better pot (tapered like the ONE.2 stepped), better input caps, big nickel torroid inductors, copper connectors, etc.  It's basically a souped up ONE.2.  We just couldn't fit most of that stuff (or afford it) in the smaller chasis.  It's a completely different PCB obviously and has a slightly more refined sound.  Will every listener be able to notice the difference?  Not sure.  And obviously, the case is different which doesn't affect the sound but it seriously affects the cost-structure for your favorite, not-for-profit audio company.

[jtsnead]

Hey Seth,
Any interest in amp only versions of this amp? or one.2

Looking at the upgrade posts on the one.2 made me wonder
if Virtue would offer a souped up version of either?

I sometimes just do not want to DIY

[dunlapk]

Seth,

Thanks for the explaination.

[dvenardos]

A man after my own heart. 

Any interest in amp only versions of this amp? or one.2

[jtsnead]

Thanks,
I like the sound of this affordable amp so much that I want to
mod mine etc. to get the most out of it, but if I could get a souped
up amp only version of the 901 for say around $700.00 I would think
about selling the one.2 and upgrading.

[dvenardos]

Seth really likes integrated amps, so I think any standalone amps would be quite a ways down the road, but we can wish and express our interest. 

Thanks,
I like the sound of this affordable amp so much that I want to
mod mine etc. to get the most out of it, but if I could get a souped
up amp only version of the 901 for say around $700.00 I would think
about selling the one.2 and upgrading.

[virtue]

Worse than that Don, I just don't get it.   These amps are all passively attenuated.  They're power amps with an adjustable resistor in front of them.  As an amateur buyer I never understood the pre-amp thing.  I get it now but why would I pay more to not have a volume knob?  Maybe an extra knob hangin' around just doesn't bother me as much as it does others.  Turn the amp to full blast... it's as if the POT weren't in the circuit.  This is actually dead-true on the ONE.2 with the stepped attenuator.  On Sensation, it's 99% true.  Those alps pots are nearly perfect at full volume.

[mamba315]

I can't speak for anybody else, but the DAC/preamp combo I use already has volume control.  Another pot in the path can't help the sound quality.  So while I don't mind having the volume control, I do prefer that it's defeatable.

When I upgrade to a better DAC, I'm gonna need that volume control back though!

[dvenardos]

It is not that we want to pay more for less, it is that we don't want to pay for something that we aren't going to use and also the loss of flexibility. With the One/Two it isn't a big deal because you just jumper the pot and there aren't any extra inputs or an expensive attenuator that you are paying for and not using, but you can really see the case with the sensation. If you already have a preamp that you like or you want more sophisticated bass management but you want to take advantage of the better amp in the sensation you have paid a lot of extra money to get that amp (inputs, nice attenuator, etc.). On the flip side, if you wanted to use the preamp on the Sensation with an external amp you paid a lot of money to not use the amp that is built into the Sensation. And you are forgetting about flexibility, audiophiles love to tweak with their systems, maybe try a tube pre, or a tube amp, or insert some other option. With an integrated it makes it much harder to tweak your system, or you feel like you are wasting half of it.

Would it not be cheaper to take the sensation amp minus the preamp section and put it in a box?
Once you go to separates you never want to go back. It is the ultimate in flexibility.

Worse than that Don, I just don't get it.   These amps are all passively attenuated.  They're power amps with an adjustable resistor in front of them.  As an amateur buyer I never understood the pre-amp thing.  I get it now but why would I pay more to not have a volume knob?  Maybe an extra knob hangin' around just doesn't bother me as much as it does others.  Turn the amp to full blast... it's as if the POT weren't in the circuit.  This is actually dead-true on the ONE.2 with the stepped attenuator.  On Sensation, it's 99% true.  Those alps pots are nearly perfect at full volume.

[jtsnead]

well said dvenardos,
I have been involved in this hobby for 25 years and I am having
more fun now than ever before and part of that is finding really
good sound for a really good price. I have owned everything from
NAD to Mark Levinson, I like the sound of tubes somewhere in the
system mainly in the preamp, which I first realized when I owned a
Audio Research SP 3. I do like integrated amps which I have had
in my system but once I tried a good tube preamp it was back to
seperates, therefore the need for stereo or mono amp only version.
I was thinking the same way if the Sensation did not have the volume
control option it would be offered at a lower cost, the reasoning behind
this was based on my recent purchase of the one.2 which is an really
good sounding amp (which I bypassed the volume control) with my tube
preamp.

I realize that a company Like Virtue can not offer everything for everybody
and what they do offer is an astounding value. I would not expect anything
more from them. Just thinking aloud if you know what I mean.

Finally you are right I am an audiophile who likes to tweek my system at
a reasonable cost. In all honesty I probally would not of even thought
about a Virtue amp unless I started reading AudioCircle. I am enjoying
my ventures and the oppurtunity to talk about it!!

[virtue]

Guys, thanks for your feedback.  It's unlikely that there will be a Sensation amp without a POT so I would ask you to set the POT at full blast and try to forget it's there!  If you're good with such things, you can actually solder it out of the circuit.

[OzarkTom]

I spent over 30 years using separates, the Sensation is just perfect for me as it is. No more cables to fuss with, that alone is the achilles heel of the sound of separates. I never heard any pre-amp that made a good sounding amp better.

It was a friend of mine that has owned separates for over 40 years, he owned many of the expensive tube amps and pre-amps on the market. He was the one that steered me towards this Sensation, thanks Rex. It has really opened up the Fun Factor for me again,

If anyone here ever gets Hi-Fi burnout, or just want one of the best sounding little integrateds ever made, with remote, the Sensation is it. The omly thing going against it is the snob appeal factor. Your friends might turn their nose up at you when they hear the price you paid. Of course you can always lie to them.

[neutralos]

... when they hear the price you paid. Of course you can always lie to them.

well said. Why lying ...? Hide and connect the virtue to your hifi system but show them a 1000 $ amp.
I am sure the most would swallow the trick ...

[OzarkTom]

well said. Why lying ...? Hide and connect the virtue to your hifi system but show them a 1000 $ amp.
I am sure the most would swallow the trick ...

I was thinking more like a $6000 amp and a $4000 pre-amp. That is how good this dang thing is.

[virtue]

So I should raise prices to $10,000/pc, Tom!  Jeesh... a few takers at that price and we'd be advertising in print!  But just for 2010, we're going to run a $9,000+ discount of the "suggested" retail price

[dunlapk]

Seth,

So then what is the difference between the M451 and M901?  I am very close to a purchase and it looks like Virtue will be it. Just need a little more informaiton.

Thanks for your time.

[virtue]

The M901 is an upgraded M451.  It includes 2 sets of Auricaps, copper binding posts, improved speaker output wire,  and a different silkscreen on the front-panel.  Otherwise, they're the same unit!  The price also includes the 30v/130w PSU standard, our most popular supply.  If you do a price check on 4 auricaps + 4 pure copper binding posts, you'll see that the upgrades are priced fairly.  Some folks want to get in at a lower price point, or to mod the unit themselves... that's why we created the M451.  So far, M901 outsells M451 by 3:1 and we'll be out of them soon...  Look forward to having you as a customer!!!

[dunlapk]

and if you run out, when will you receive more? I have to sell some equipment from another venture to fund the purchase. I'm looking at the M901 and the M1.

[virtue]

We don't expect to make more M901s in 2010.  It is realistic that when they sell out, we will offer M451s with M901 upgrade options...  High end audio has taken a huge beating during the last 24 months and it's only prudent for us to sell fewer amps, and sell out, than to have piles of them in the warehouse unsold and have to drop prices in order to move them (see ICEBlock for example ).  Catch 'em while you can.