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Very well put.
Then in your opinion, are you saying science will never be relevant?Anyone know of a science that is complete?life is a mystery,Dan
+1. I'm going to try to adopt your motto, Kevin, even if I do love a good debate.
I wish I could adopt it completely--and I hate debating. I have no problem with people buying whatever they want. My concern is that sometimes people post things with a lot of enthusiasm based on their opinion at the moment( I know I've sure been guilty). Often times this opinion is temporary and heavily influenced by the recording, listening environment and associated gear(both visual and auditory stimuli). When I was younger and didn't have much money, this was very frustrating. Now, I certainly don't care to part with my savings much easier than I used to, so I try understand what can be accomplished reasonably. During high school and college I saved up money, listened to gear that others recommended, and made purchases heavily based on momentary opinion (heavily influenced by the same outside factors) only to get home and be frustrated that it only sounded good in certain conditions and was overall just a sideways move or not worth the monetary consequence. I just don't want to see others post things that have little foundation in reality and make it difficult for younger or less affluent audiophiles to acquire something that isn't going to satisfy their needs. Breaking the "Circle of Confusion" is essential for this IMO. Trying to get something out of the recording or actually getting something out of the recording that isn't on it sure makes for confusion. Just my 2 cents,Dan
I think it's perfectly clear what I said and what I mean. And I gave an example that illustrates it perfectly.My point is that those that use science and measurements in these audio discussions as the final arbiter of everything and as 100% and irrefutable proof of their position could well be wrong. Not saying science is irrelevant. Simply saying scientific findings/theories have been proven to be wrong countless times throughout history. Noone can argue this.Maybe the science is currently incomplete.....as it was during the "flat earth" period in my example. Maybe there is something involved with acoustics and human hearing that has not yet been fully figured out by science. Maybe there is some acoustic parameter that the ear is delivering to the brain, and interpreted there, that science does not even know exists, much less knows how to measure. An auditory black hole!
science doesn't work unless it is properly evolved and complete.
....and remember, it's about the music.
Thanks for the links Dan, and thanks everyone for your thoughts!! Just what I was looking for....it really is all about the music.I'm disabled and music is my salvation, I wanted to make sure I didn't buy any "snake oil"..thank you all!!! Ed L.
And exactly what is the science and smell test? I have a BSEE and MSEE, so I tend not to believe in wire making a difference. On the other hand, I've performed comparisons on my system with interconnects and speaker cable and was easily able to hear a difference. My logical brain doesn't like it, but that's what happened.
Also, just because things make logical sense don't mean they're correct. For instance, it makes logical sense (at least to me) that eating more (insoluble) fiber would mean fewer cancers and other ailments because the fiber would allow potential carcinogens to pass through the body instead of being absorbed. However, many actual (that is, not epidemiologic) tests of this hypothesis have failed to find such a benefit. Sounds good, but it just doesn't work.
As a new member to this hobby, I constantly read about various items that claim to make "all the difference", "cryo sealed", "special mojo"..etc.. you know what I'm talking about. Do $1400 interconnects make a huge impact? Do CD mats do anything? I am NOT in anyway saying all these things are crap, just using examples. So whats up with stuff?? Tell me what stuff you think is real and what stuff you think is bogus??
Seems like lately all threads in General Audio end up being the same. Oh well
A wise observation. Why is that? Not why is it a wise observation, but why do they end up the same? I won't care in a few minutes because I'll be watching Last Waltz BD on a 92" perforated screen.
