Bicycling On-the-Road

Levi · « **Reply #660 on:** 21 Jun 2011, 07:56 pm »

Thanks Jack. I was going to throw them old Sidi shoes away. He he he.

jackman · « **Reply #661 on:** 21 Jun 2011, 09:07 pm »

Quote from: Levi on 21 Jun 2011, 07:56 pm

Thanks Jack. I was going to throw them old Sidi shoes away. He he he.

Doh! I like the look of those old shoes but I imagine the new ones are stiffer and more comfy. Also, you aren't kidding about walking in road shoes, i hate it! I got a flat a while back and had to walk 4 miles home (no spare!) in my Shimano shoes. They had ventilation holes on the soles and it was wet out. My feet were soaked and miserable. I carry 2 spare tubes now!

Cheers,

J

LadyDog · « **Reply #662 on:** 25 Jun 2011, 03:47 am »

Levi,
How is the saddle holding up? Didn't think I'd ever say or consider a $150 saddle, but have been looking at some of Fizik's carbon models. Though more of a Arione person myself.

Thankfully never been much bothered by saddles. Regardless of the manufacturer, size, or shape. Maybe it is because I'm a lard ass and just do not feel/notice it.

Anyway, thanks for the time and thoughts.

Regards,
Jeff

Levi · « **Reply #663 on:** 25 Jun 2011, 04:20 am »

Hey Jeff,

The Fizik saddle that I use proves to be extremely comfortable even over century rides lasting over 116+ miles. I lucked out on this one. I had Selle Italia SLR with titanium rails on my road bike and it is nothing but pain in the ass.

I have no problems with it riding off-roads.

To each his own.

--Levi

sandbagger · « **Reply #664 on:** 27 Jun 2011, 07:01 pm »

My ride from Sunday, longest ride I have done in MANY years
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/95100455

The slow stuff about 31-37miles in was due to seeing a friend of mine riding the other direction on his mountain bike and I rode at his pace for a while

I learned a very valuable lesson, my body runs out of fuel after about 42miles!!!!
I bonked so hard its not even close to funny

I really need to take some sort of fuel for long rides like this, never really have any problems with 40, but lust past that, I was dead.

jackman · « **Reply #665 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 01:54 am »

Sandbagger, great stuff! Thanks for sharing. That Garminconnect is pretty slick. Looks like you had a great ride. I've been off the bike for a week because I had an infection in my gums that needed oral surgery (root canal and abcess, etc.). Fun stuff and I'm back in the chair for round two tomorrow. Hope to get a ride in tomorrow or Wednesday.

This thread is educational for me and inspirational! Who knew there were so many cyclists on AC?

Cheers,
J

JoshK · « **Reply #666 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 02:21 am »

not fun, jackman! get better.

JoshK · « **Reply #667 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 02:25 am »

sandman, I actually know where that is. I got married in Livonia. Well ceremony at least (court house wedding, legally).

sandbagger · « **Reply #668 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 02:49 am »

Here was tonight's ride, it was a dirt ride, I am multi-talented

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/95358073

I am going to be doing a relay race out there end of july and hadnt been on that trail in over 2yrs. Had a slow guy with us, fine by me as I needed to remember where things went. I hit a wall pretty hard on the last 2 short climbs that should not have even phased me at all, probably due to the 50 I did yesterday.

jackman · « **Reply #669 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 05:06 pm »

Anyone here from Boston? It's good to see bike building is alive and well in Boston, MA! I was checking out Independent Fabrication and learned they were moving out of state to a new facility. It makes sense because in order for them to take it to the next level (and sell bikes internationally) they needed a larger space. Their existing one was not set up for international buyers and local buyers to watch frames being made and to set up a nice showroom, and I imagine there were cost advantages of moving to a new facility. They decided to set up a larger factory in New Hampshire and I wish them luck.

Several people did not want to move from the Boston area and recently formed Firefly bikes. This is my version of bike porn, because their workmanship is really amazing. They only make ti and stainless steel bikes and the welder was one of IF's best (maybe the best) along with the bike designer who has a degree from Dartmoth in neuroscience. Not sure if that makes him a good bike designer but he did some great work at IF.

It's funny because all of these companies sprung from the ashes of Fat Chance Bikes! I'm probably missing some but Independent Fab, ANT Bikes, Firefly Bikes, Seven, all came from Fat Chance. There is something cool about bikes being made in the US, and something even cooler about bikes being made in Boston (to me at least). Like speakers or electronics made by Salk, Wright or Bamberg, it's cool to speak with the guy making your stuff, especially if it's something as important as a bike or a set of speakers.

The next time I get a big bonus (not on horizon but I'm working on it!), I'm going to take a long, hard look at some of these awesome American craftsmen including the guys at Firefly, Lynskey, Zinn, Waterford, and IF. I've seen Lynskey bikes up close and they are works of art. I expect the same from Firefly!

Here are the goods...Boston in the house!

http://fireflybicycles.com/gallery-2

Levi · « **Reply #670 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 05:16 pm »

Ti frame are great. I have a Litespeed and Merlin custom frames.

However, for road bikes Carbon composites are the best materials. That is if you want to be competitive = fast.

jackman · « **Reply #671 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: Levi on 28 Jun 2011, 05:16 pm

Ti frame are great. I have a Litespeed and Merlin custom frames.

However, for road bikes Carbon composites are the best materials. That is if you want to be competitive = fast.

I used to think the same thing, but now I'm not so sure. It's not that I'm debating whether CF bikes are the fastest, they probably are. They are the lightest and stiffest frames you can get. They can also be made to be very comfortable, or have the best blend of comfort and stiffness and lightness. These are things that are nearly impossible to do with other materials.

I've tested some CF bikes (and I currently own one) and most of them were awesome. The stiffest, and possibly fastest bike I've ever tried was a Scott Addict, but I would never want to own this bike. It was just too stiff and race oriented for me. The bike was feather-weight and very sexy but too twitchy and stiff.

My next bike will have a long-ish wheelbase, good handling, be stiff yet comfortable, and be a bike that I can keep for a long time. The Ti Firefly or Lynskey are very different than older ti bikes. The new Ti tubesets have shaped tubes, are butted and they are stiff and comfortable, plus they ride great. I could build one (with Edge fork and wheels and SRAM Red) around the 15-16 lb range, but the weight is not my primary consideration. I want a bike that is comfy, lightweight and fast. There are carbon bikes on my list also!

Other bikes on my lust-list include Colnago C59, Parlee Z5 (or 4,3,2 but they are out of my budget), Serotta Ottrott - which is a combination of CF and Ti. Serotta makes the best riding bikes I have ever tried and several guys in my group ride Serotta. They are beautiful to look at and not the typical cookie-cutter bikes you see on the road. http://www.serotta.com/Bikes/Road/OttrottSE/

Ideally, I'd like to have several bikes (and several audio systems while I'm at it) for different occasions. A crit bike for short fast rides, a TT bike, a cyclocross bike for muddy rides and a comfy bike for long, fast group rides and centuries. My budget allows for one bike (one pro level race bike) and I'd like to get one that does as many things good as possible.

For speed, I really need to work on the motor, me. I've been sidelined with a bad infection in my gums, and had my second root canal today. Feeling good enough to ride tonight and I hope to get a fast training ride in. There is a hill near my house and I am going to do interval training too get ready for some big weekend rides. Looking forwrd to hearing about the exciting rides you NY guys are undoubtedly planning this weekend.

Cheers,

Jack

LadyDog · « **Reply #672 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 01:34 am »

Lets not forget Maietta, Mooney, Iglehart, White, Mojic, Zanconato, and maybe the master of them all, Sachs.

Jack, I agree the Firefly guys are turning out some killer stuff. The Bertone is just cool as s***.

I won't get into the steel vs. carbon vs. ti debate, thankfully I own or have owned some of each. They are have their pro's and con's. Intent and purpose may go a long way into material choice.

They are great builders of each material. Sure I am missing a few, but my list would probably boil down to something like;

Carbon - Parlee, Crumpton, Serotta, Strong

Ti - Kish, Ericson, Strong, Bedford, Firefly, Baum,

Steel - Sachs, Bedford, Kirk, Zanc, Vanilla, Strong, Baum,

If start to see a common thread, they are all custom builders.

Levi · « **Reply #673 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 04:12 am »

It was just my observation based on what the Pro cyclist were using at Tour de Italia and Tour de France. Likewise, most fast guys in my group were armed with carbon speed weapons.

I haven't seen anyone who had a Ti or Aluminum frame road bike who won the tour. I could be wrong.

jackman · « **Reply #674 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 12:40 pm »

Quote from: Levi on 29 Jun 2011, 04:12 am

It was just my observation based on what the Pro cyclist were using at Tour de Italia and Tour de France. Likewise, most fast guys in my group were armed with carbon speed weapons.

I haven't seen anyone who had a Ti or Aluminum frame road bike who won the tour. I could be wrong.

Levi, you know that pro cyclists don't get to pick the frame material of the bike they ride.

Most pro's don't get to pick the brand of bike - the team usually picks the brand of bike. It is usually not based on bike performance (all of the major bike manufacturers make very good bikes), but economics - who is willing to pay them the most money to ride their bike. Only big bike companies can afford to sponsor teams in big races. No big bike company (as far as I know) who sponsors a team makes bikes out of anything but CF. Also, economics plays a major role in this equasion. Bike companies want people to ride frames that generate the most profit for the bike companies.

CF is an awesome material and I'm not going to argue against it. Just saying that the "pro's use it" argument is not as solid as many people think. I tend to think there are lots of great frame material options, each with its own pro's and cons. The importance of design of the bike and construction of the frame are often overlooked.

Among the well known (small) frame manufacturers there are framebuilders who can make a bike tailored to a rider's specific needs, preferences and size. The best of these companies (listed by Ladydog) have a cult following among people who pay large sums of money to buy their products. Heck, several former pro's who can ride anything they wish are known to purchase these bikes for their personal bike stable. Often, these bikes are made of steel or Ti or a combination of a metal and CF and custom made to the rider's size. It would be very difficult (and not profitable) for a large bike company like Specialized or Giant to make a bike in this manner.

Not to say I ultimately get a cool Tarmac, S2 or TCR! Those are cool bikes and my opinion changes every time I think about it.

Cheers,
J

JoshK · « **Reply #675 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 01:40 pm »

For myself, I don't care about being the fastest guy out there. I ride solo. I just care about a bike that makes me what to keep riding and getting stronger. 500grms one way or the other isn't going to make a huge difference to me.

Levi · « **Reply #676 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 01:41 pm »

Sure Pro riders have a choice. One example is Team Garmin-Cervelo. In particular, Thor Hushovd rides Cervelo S3, R3SL, R3 and FM70. Likewise, Contact points like saddles, pedals, bars and other components like wheel sets. Sure they have a choice.

Trek, Specialized, Giant, Scott makes lots of road bikes. Pro riders can choose between all of them. Why not ride aluminum or Titanium if Carbon has all the advantages in racing. It is simply the best materials for whoever wants to go FAST and win races.

They always have choices. Pros and club racers alike.

Simply look around you, the fastest guys in your group rides what? In my Group it is not Ti, Aluminum, steel or combination. They use Carbon frame bikes. Hence my point.

Btw, running a tour is expensive that is why most small manufacturers like Cervelo teams up with Garmin. Other companies follow suit. If sponsors thinks you have a winning bike, they will invest on you or your bike company.

Quote from: jackman on 29 Jun 2011, 12:40 pm

Levi, you know that pro cyclists don't get to pick the frame material of the bike they ride. Most pro's don't get to pick the brand of bike - the team usually picks the brand of bike. It is usually not based on bike performance (all of the major bike manufacturers make very good bikes), but economics - who is willing to pay them the most money to ride their bike. Only big bike companies can afford to sponsor teams in big races. No big bike company (as far as I know) who sponsors a team makes bikes out of anything but CF. Also, economics plays a major role in this equasion. Bike companies want people to ride frames that generate the most profit for the bike companies.

CF is an awesome material and I'm not going to argue against it. Just saying that the "pro's use it" argument is not as solid as many people think. I tend to think there are lots of great frame material options, each with its own pro's and cons. The importance of design of the bike and construction of the frame are often overlooked.

Among the well known (small) frame manufacturers there are framebuilders who can make a bike tailored to a rider's specific needs, preferences and size. The best of these companies (listed by Ladydog) have a cult following among people who pay large sums of money to buy their products. Heck, several former pro's who can ride anything they wish are known to purchase these bikes for their personal bike stable. Often, these bikes are made of steel or Ti or a combination of a metal and CF and custom made to the rider's size. It would be very difficult (and not profitable) for a large bike company like Specialized or Giant to make a bike in this manner.

Not to say I ultimately get a cool Tarmac, S2 or TCR! Those are cool bikes and my opinion changes every time I think about it.

Cheers,
J

JoshK · « **Reply #677 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 01:47 pm »

By the way, a comment above made me think about my situation. I often wonder whether I got the wrong size bike. The bike shop steered me to a 52cm (I'm 5'8" and 30" inseam).

Its my first real road bike since I was a kid and back then nothing was ever fit or anything like that. It just feels so small and twitchy to me. Going over 30mphs is freaking scary, which isn't like me, I am a daredevil and a half. By contrast, going 35mph down a rocky, rooty double track isn't scary at all on either of my MTBs. They feel much more stable.

Maybe its just the bike's geometry being more compact rather than spread-out and I am not used to it? It feels ok in many ways, but high speed downhills feels quite unnerving on this bike.

Levi · « **Reply #678 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 01:57 pm »

Hey Josh, riding in a group is fun. Keeping up with the fast guys makes you even fitter. You just have to play it smart. Work hard or work smart!

Your twitchiness in high speed can be caused by many factors. One of them is your stem and body position. CAAD9 has good geometry. You may also need to relax in the saddle. Now I am just guessing.

Spending extra on a good bike fit is worth it in the long run.

JoshK · « **Reply #679 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 02:07 pm »

All this talk about carbon vs steel vs Ti makes me think of that youtube video/skit about "performance".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn29DvMITu4