which low price tube pre....EE Mini or Mapletree?

drphoto · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 02:41 pm »

Where's a good place to get those tungsol tubes?

thanks

Dr. Lloyd is backordered for at least a month. Somebody sell me theirs please!

toobluvr · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 03:10 pm »

I don't care one way or another, but this was just posted over in "your most disappointing purchase" thread:

"Mapletree Audio 4SE preamp.

Everyone talked about how this thing was a giant killer and sounded so good. The whole time I had it, I always felt like I wanted to run screaming from the room.

I tried rolling tubes to absolutely no avail.

My Response Audio preamp, even though significantly more expensive then the MAD, totally smokes it in every manner possible.

This was when I learned that you usually get what you pay for, and that when someone says there 1K piece of equipment performs the same as a 10K piece of equipment; they are usually delusional."

Reply #61:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79759.60

YMMV.....FWIW......and all the other usual qualifiers apply.

cujobob · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 04:27 pm »

Kingdeezie also wrote a great review of the same MAD preamp he's talking about on the AV123 forum a while back. Somehow, his opinion changed but I think he had components that didn't mate well given the type of sound he was claiming the unit had in his newer system.

I've tried my Line2A with a variety of equipment and it's always been a great performer.

drphoto · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 07:37 pm »

There's a minty VTL 2.5 on AG for $850. Has two outputs, which I like and a remote.

Any thoughts?

TomS · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: drphoto on 7 Apr 2010, 07:37 pm

There's a minty VTL 2.5 on AG for $850. Has two outputs, which I like and a remote.

Any thoughts?

If you're willing to stretch to those kind of dollars for an old VTL, I'd hold out for a nicely priced used Modwright 9.0 or maybe one of Bill Baker's "Basis" 6SN7 preamps http://www.bellaextreme.com/basis%20linestage.htm. Either of those at $1200 or less is going to be darn good stuff and worth every penny. With the exception of that one person noted above, most Mapletree owners seem to love them with the right tubes.

Since getting the Atma-Sphere stuff, I've become pretty fond of 6SN7's and the wide variety available. Prices continue to ratchet up, but there are a zillion of them in circulation and you don't have to change your basic hardware to get an improvement when budget does finally allow it.

Tom

cujobob · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 10:04 pm »

I'd pass on the VTL, personally. The Basis preamp could be quite nice, if I were in the market, I'd consider it.

I don't know if I'll ever sell my MAD pre...and not just because I have 40 Tung Sol 6SN7 I stocked up on when I purchased it

drphoto · « **Reply #26 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 10:24 pm »

Just wondering why you'd pass on the VTL? Got some great reviews all over the place. Of course we know what those might be worth.

cujobob · « **Reply #27 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 10:29 pm »

The impression I've got from people who've owned VTLs were that they didn't compare too well with some of the other high quality offerings available.

TomS · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 11:03 pm »

Quote from: cujobob on 7 Apr 2010, 10:29 pm

The impression I've got from people who've owned VTLs were that they didn't compare too well with some of the other high quality offerings available.

I commented on it at first, then edited it back out of my post because I really don't remember much about it, but ... I had one for about 2 weeks, shortest I ever owned anything methinks. Maybe it was the 12ax7's I had, not sure, but as I recall it was dark and rather veiled to me. Perhaps bad synergy at the time but it just didn't bring that tube glory I expected of it. Now long gone. As I said, I think you can do better for close to the $. Lots of options.

Jon L · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 11:09 pm »

Another option is a used VAC Standard/Standard LE preamp. I've seen these for reasonable prices on Agon, and these have that EE smooth, rich sound but with much more dynamics, resolution, and transparency.

I personally would pick up a nicely upgraded Transcendent Grounded Grid, but that's just me

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72652.0

bunky · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 11:21 pm »

Quote from: drphoto on 7 Apr 2010, 07:37 pm

There's a minty VTL 2.5 on AG for $850. Has two outputs, which I like and a remote.

Any thoughts?

I own a VTL TL 2.5 linestage that sounds very good with Amperex PQ 7316's but i just replaced it with a dual mono BAT VK 30 which uses PIO capacitors as does my Loc Vu Modded GTA SE40 Class A single ended power amp and the combination has very good synergy with my Silverline Sonatina 2's. i believe toobluvr is giving his genuine opinion on the mapletree based on the lack of synergy that it has in his particular room/system. if you bought a VTL 2.5 for $850 to try in your system and it did not work out for you in your system you would not have a problem recouping your investment if you tried to sell it. i have a friend who owned the more expensive VTL 5.5 and after listening to a 2.5 much prefered the sound of the 2.5 to the 5.5 so you never know until you listen.Good luck....WCW III

PTC · « **Reply #31 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 12:08 am »

Hi You might want to check out the Audio Mirror T-61 Great Price Great sound!!! Can be had for $700

toobluvr · « **Reply #32 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 12:33 am »

Quote from: bunky on 7 Apr 2010, 11:21 pm

i believe toobluvr is giving his genuine opinion on the mapletree based on the lack of synergy that it has in his particular room/system.

I've never heard the Mapletree. I simply reported what another member said about it.

cujobob · « **Reply #33 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 01:47 am »

http://www.forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=38519&highlight=mapletree

Same guy.

Just saying...I recommended he try the preamp, started out liking it, didn't with his new system. It happens.

Tyson · « **Reply #34 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 01:58 am »

Octals measure (and sound) better than novals. Plus they have less gain, which is a very good thing in modern systems, where too much gain raised the noise floor and kills off some dynamics and transparency.

drphoto · « **Reply #35 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 02:27 am »

I think I'll hold out for the MAD w/ the Blackgate caps. It's only $840 new and shipped which is pretty cheap. Plus I like it's funky retro style. Just have to wait a month or so. I think I'm gonna pass on the film resistors, unless you guys think it really matters. I figure I'd save the money for some NOS tubes. (which are getting pretty pricey it seems)

cujobob · « **Reply #36 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 02:32 am »

I've heard good things about 12SX7 tubes. I'd look for a pair of those.

JoshK · « **Reply #37 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 02:38 am »

Quote from: cujobob on 8 Apr 2010, 02:32 am

I've heard good things about 12SX7 tubes. I'd look for a pair of those.

Shhhhh!!!

JoshK · « **Reply #38 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 02:47 am »

Quote from: Tyson on 8 Apr 2010, 01:58 am

Octals measure (and sound) better than novals. Plus they have less gain, which is a very good thing in modern systems, where too much gain raised the noise floor and kills off some dynamics and transparency.

That isn't generally true. It is true that the 6SN7 is among the most linear small signal tubes in existence, but the 6SL7, 6BX7, 6BL7 aren't more linear than say a 5687. Depending on the function, a noval tube can operate far more linearly than an octal serving the same role, for instance a 5687 as a 300B driver vs a 6SN7 doing same.

The part about gain is wrong, sorry. Gain (mu) of 6SN7 is ~20, 6SL7 ~70, 6BL7 ~15 iirc. Comparatively, novals of similar type are 12au7 ~20, 12at7 ~70, 5687 ~15. It is just that there is no octal equivalent of the 12ax7 (which have mu of 70-100 depending on the make) and well as there is far more noval types than octal types, which means there are lots of novals that there is no octal equivalent. For instance, the 12B4A is a noval with a gain of 8.

To date, my favorite noval preamp type is 5687 and octal is 6SN7, because 1) I heard them, and 2) they are low enough gain to be useful in a preamp. Still they are both a bit too high of gain for most systems. A 12B4A would likely be much better in most systems.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #39 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 03:40 am »

drphoto....
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