proaudio speakers

drphoto · « **on:** 28 Mar 2010, 09:29 pm »

Seems like more and more home audio speaker designers are using pro audio drivers to great effect. Well what about just trying complete proaudio PA speakers such as JBL that you can find cheap even new at places like Musicians Friend? Do they have crummy crossovers? Could one just upgrade the parts or go active w/ a proaudio unit like the Ashley or Behringer? Are the cabinets too resonant? What about using BH-5 or something else relatively inexpensive.

This is assuming one could live w/ something covered in carpet or vinyl w/ metal corner caps and handles!

Sorry if this has been covered before.

joe

gerald porzio · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Mar 2010, 10:53 pm »

If they showed promise as home spkrs., the news would have been out years ago. You are apt to experience audio frustration & take a hit wallet wise when you try to dump them.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Mar 2010, 11:05 pm »

I agree. My own experience with Pro-audio speakers was less than acceptable, I got with ears saturated due strong,
hard mid's and hi´s and frustrated. A waste of money.
Gustavo

JDUBS · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 12:48 am »

Absolutely they can be used in a home setting. Not sure what gerald porzio and drphoto have tried but I use Yorkville Unitys to great effect in my home setting. I actively triamp them with a DEQX 2.6P as preamp / crossover.

The Yorkvilles combine great quality drivers, a nice cabinet, and the Unity horn into a very reasonably priced package. Might not look great (according to my wife anyway) but they sound terrific with dynamics unapproachable (imho) by more "domestic" speaker types.

-Jim

stereocilia · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 02:35 am »

I've wondered this myself. Klein + Hummel speakers sounded impressive to me at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Annex in NYC. I think Adam audio monitors are in this month's Absolute Sound.

How about something like the JBL LSR series with built-in room correction? Or, what about the KRK Expose with an ERGO room correction? I'd be very curious to hear a setup with just a digital source with a volume control sending a balanced signal to powered monitors. It seems like the most cost-effective way to get a flat response, if that's what we're after. That's a big "if," I suppose.

dwk · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 02:49 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 29 Mar 2010, 12:48 am

Absolutely they can be used in a home setting. Not sure what gerald porzio and drphoto have tried but I use Yorkville Unitys to great effect in my home setting. I actively triamp them with a DEQX 2.6P as preamp / crossover.

The Yorkvilles combine great quality drivers, a nice cabinet, and the Unity horn into a very reasonably priced package. Might not look great (according to my wife anyway) but they sound terrific with dynamics unapproachable (imho) by more "domestic" speaker types.

-Jim

I also use the U15's, and agree that with a little massaging and tweaking they are amazing speakers as mains. The aren't exactly your run-of-the-mill pro audio cabinets though. Still, the value proposition is staggering compared to conventional hi-fi IMHO.

JDUBS, can you export xover settings from the DEQX? I'd be very interested in seeing what you're using. I'm moving (excruciatingly slowly, but moving) towards an active tri-amp set up for the U15's as well....

drphoto · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 03:30 am »

I've never tried this myself. I'm just guessing the reason it hasn't been tried on a wide scale is a built in bias..... that this can't possibly work.

Or maybe it has and it sucked, and that's why I'm asking.

I will freely admit to being clueless.

JDUBS · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 03:43 am »

Quote from: dwk on 29 Mar 2010, 02:49 am

I also use the U15's, and agree that with a little massaging and tweaking they are amazing speakers as mains. The aren't exactly your run-of-the-mill pro audio cabinets though. Still, the value proposition is staggering compared to conventional hi-fi IMHO.

JDUBS, can you export xover settings from the DEQX? I'd be very interested in seeing what you're using. I'm moving (excruciatingly slowly, but moving) towards an active tri-amp set up for the U15's as well....

dwk, happy to send you the driver measurements. I'm using the stock crossover points of 300hz and 1250hz but with 96khz slopes. The DEQX took the measurements and then applied gain and phase correction to get the speakers flat out to 20khz using the crossover points specified. Really cool stuff.

-Jim

warnerwh · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 08:45 am »

I'm not an engineer but I bet that pro audio speakers have different design requirements than home audio speakers. I'm guessing there are attributes pro audio speaker designers require that home audio speaker designers don't worry about and vice versa.
I agree with the above poster that if there are pro audio speakers that perform well for our intended purpose we'd know about it already. No doubt there are some that are useful for some purposes but I suspect it's not very many. Hopefully a speaker designer will step in and explain the engineering of both types of speaker design to us.

eclein · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 10:25 am »

I've been using EVENT TR5 nearfield monitors with my laptop for quite awhile, they were from an old project studio I used to have..sound great. The JBL LSR almost got a home here, they sound incredible I understand...and if you check out JBL's website and look at the home audio section they have some speakers that look like they came off a stage into someone's living room. I think if your talking control room sound monitors then yes its happening but the bigger live sound stuff is just too unwieldy.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 11:57 am »

I think you're completely right about this. But I don't understand why that is. Aren't we trying reach the same end? I.E. reveal everything in the original recording.

Quote from: warnerwh on 29 Mar 2010, 08:45 am

I'm not an engineer but I bet that pro audio speakers have different design requirements than home audio speakers.

macrojack · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm »

Pro audio speakers are tools and home audio speakers are toys. The pros don't concern themselves with matching wood grains or pleasing reviewers. Their market does believe in measurements and doesn't worry about imaging and depth of field.

I have two pairs of NHT M-OO monitors that I use as computer speakers. They have served us well and they are very business like. My main speakers are basically pro in character even though they look reasonably domesticated.

I'm pretty convinced about the value involved in certain professional speaker designs but much of what is offered in the music stores are unrefined junk concerned more with filling large spaces than making beautiful music. Generally the better pro speakers are better speakers, if your priorities include dynamics and ease of presentation. HORNS RULE!!!

JLM · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 12:33 pm »

Please define what you mean by "proaudio". Studio work and sound reinforcement are two completely different tasks and the speakers used typically reflect that.

Sound reinforcement (amplified concert use) are primarily meant used for mid-bass and higher frequencies only and need to be very efficient. Often the mids/highs use compression horns which distort/color the sound (due to non-linear compression of the air and vibration of the horn walls - sorry Jack). The woofers involved normally are ported so as to emphasize the "boom-boom" (60 Hz) range.

Studio work involves very small spaces, again lack of deep bass, and typically involve built-in amplifiers. These tend to be very accurate and detailed (to the point of being "overly analytical"). The bass extension/output, dynamics, and flat frequency response afforded by the built-in amps is amazing, but typically these speakers lack the "warmth" most want at home.

macrojack · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 01:00 pm »

JLM - Surely you are right about the distinction between studio and stadium sound. I guess I was thinking only of studio equipment as the scale involved is closer to that of our home listening spaces.

My horns use B&C 50mm compression drivers through conical horns made of 12 one inch thick
cherry wood "petals". Very low distortion and no vibration. Horns are only 40 degrees (20 degrees off axis on either side) so dispersion is narrow. OTOH the need for room treatment is reduced.

This approach requires a fairly big room. Mine is barely large enough. As for warmth, that can be accommodated by upstream component selection.

Not all horns are created equal. Generalizations are risky. Certainly there are a lot of horns that ring, rasp or rattle but presumably the better ones are what would be considered in this discussion.

gerald porzio · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 01:51 pm »

Good studio monitors by & large are not horns. The good ones are pricey. Good luck.

turkey · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 03:39 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 29 Mar 2010, 12:33 pm

Often the mids/highs use compression horns which distort/color the sound (due to non-linear compression of the air and vibration of the horn walls - sorry Jack).

While these things might be a problem with inexpensive and/or poorly designed equipment, they are not a characteristic of properly designed waveguides and compression drivers.

Damping the horn walls is pretty easy, so that's not something to worry about anyway. Better to worry about diffraction and higher order modes (both are problems with typical horn designs, and diffraction is a problem even with many very expensive "audiophile" speakers).

Quote

Studio work involves very small spaces, again lack of deep bass, and typically involve built-in amplifiers. These tend to be very accurate and detailed (to the point of being "overly analytical"). The bass extension/output, dynamics, and flat frequency response afforded by the built-in amps is amazing, but typically these speakers lack the "warmth" most want at home.

Not all studio control rooms are former janitor's closets, and not all monitor speakers sit on the meter bridge for near-field use.

"Overly analytical?" I prefer that my speakers reproduce what is on the recording. I don't want "warm" speakers, I want neutral ones.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 07:10 pm »

I just noticed this thread, or I would have responded earlier.

I strongly feel that good pro audio speakers make wonderful speakers for the home, and if chosen carefully, absolutely destroy any home speaker/amp combination of which I am aware, dollar for dollar.

Trouble is, there are not many speakers that qualify, since greater dynamic capability is generally expected and compromises are made to that purpose - but I guess the same could be said of home consumer directed speakers.

I would say speakers that are very hard to beat once amplifier cost is factored in (they are all active types) would include Yamaha HS80Ms at $350 each, K+H 0300 and 0410 ($2100 and $4000 each, street price) and Event Opals at $3000 pr.

Speaking of passive speakers, I haven't heard them but from what I gather any of the Earl Geddes designs and Duke LeJeune's designs would most likely qualify, too.

I can not for the life of me see any way in which a mastering speaker and home speaker should differ, sonically.

charles28722 · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 07:35 pm »

Talk to Lou Hinkley at Daedalus Audio. He has extensive experience designing and building pro-audio loudspeakers.

gerald porzio · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 08:12 pm »

http://www.westlakeaudio.com/

They don't post on audio forums & probably don't have to.

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 09:23 pm »

For the most part I agree with you turkey, just trying to lay down the typical arguments by using wide brush strokes.

Active designs have huge advantages that once heard cannot be ignored.