ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions

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ltr317

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #20 on: 13 May 2010, 01:58 am »
I have on loan a pair of the Virtue Audio M5001 ICEBlock monoblock amps and a Piano M1 cd player for audition.  Seth Krinsky, chief bottle washer of Virtue, didn’t ask me to review the amps, but I had a nice time listening to the amps and thought I would post an informal review.  I also have on loan a pair of the Fritzspeakers Carbon 7 speakers, which were used as part of the evaluation.

A little background information about myself:  I have been an off and on audiophile for approximately 35 years, but have been a continuous music lover during this period.  I have own countless pieces of audio equipment, both hi-end and mid-fi, solid state and tube.  Throughout my years of listening, I have tried to approach a new piece of equipment with the notion that I will listen using a standard of neutrality, though my own preference is for a warmer sound.

Associated equipment during listening sessions were with a McIntosh C30 solid state preamp (M), heavily modified Dynaco Pas tube preamp (D), Virtue Audio Piano M1 CD player (V), OppO 970 cdp used as transport/heavily modified ART DIO Dac (OA), Heybrook HB 150 2 way stand mounted speakers (bass to approx. 40Hz), AAD 2001 2 way stand mounted speakers (bass to approx. 30Hz), Fritzspeakers Carbon 7 stand mounted speakers (bass to approx. 40Hz).

Tubes used:  JJ 12AX7 (stock), 1960s Mullard 12AX7s, 1960s Siemens 12AT7s, 1960s GE 6201s.

CDs used for audition: The Reminder by Feist, The Trinity Session by The Cowboy Junkies, New Coat of Paint, cover songs of Tom Waits by various artists, When Harry Met Sally soundtrack by Harry Connick, Jr, My One and Only Thrill by Melody Gardot, Monster by R.E.M., and Symphony No. 9 in E minor (From The New World) by Antonin Dvorak, LSO conducted by Istvan Kertesz.

The Feist and CBJ cds were chosen for their extended treble and well recorded acoustic ambiance.  The Tom Waits cd was chosen for its tonal balance and beautifully recorded midrange.  The When Harry Met Sally cd was chosen for dynamics and sound quality.  The Melody Gardot cd was chosen for recording excellence and a “live” sound.  The Dvorak cd was chosen for tonal and instrumental complexity, as well as dynamics.  The R.E.M. cd was chosen for its mediocre sound quality.

Since the pair that Gary Dodd sent me were two of the first M5001s with the tube buffer made, Seth suggested I burn them in for approximately 150 hours, which I did with an extra 50 hours thrown in for good measure.  I had an Al Kooper cd on repeat for a continuous nine days.  Glad I didn’t use that cd for evaluation purposes, as I need to get away from it for a while.

The following is my listening impressions over the course of several weeks:

Tonal balance and general sound: Listening was initially with the stock JJ ECC803S/12AX7 tubes.  Tonal balance was fairly good throughout the frequency spectrum, with a touch of leanness in the midrange and lower mid-range.  This quality was evident with both M and D preamps, and all speaker models.  Swapping the JJs with the Mullards or, Siemens produced a fuller midrange, and at times providing holographic vocals, especially with the D preamp.  Instrumental timbres were good to very good (depending on the recording), sometimes giving an illusion of hearing real instruments being played.  Overall, music produced by the ICEBlocks with the stock tubes sounded much like a hybrid amp, neither exactly neutral nor overly warm.  After switching to the Siemens or GEs, the sound was slightly fuller, and the treble became smoother, yet still extended.  Another switch, this time to the Mullards produced a warmer midrange and smoother but less extended treble.  The Mullards made the ICEBlocks sound more like full tube amps.  The Mullards also produced smooth and round musical notes.  For those who want a more incisive sound, stick with either the JJs or the GE 6201s.

Treble frequencies: With the JJ tubes, I heard occasional excessive sibilance on both the Feist and CBJ recordings on either preamp.   Switching to the Mullards or Siemens, sibilance was controlled and any amount presented sounded more natural.  For listeners who are especially sensitive to high frequency energy, a change in the tube will help smooth out the sound.  Otherwise, the M5001 monoblocks were able to convey the resolution produced by either the M or D preamp.

Midrange frequencies: As this is the meat of most music, I am especially critical of equipment which is lacking in this region.  With the stock 12AX7, the sound in this region was good to very good.  As mentioned, there is a slight leanness in this region with the stock tube.  Also, vocal inflections, styling and emotion were not as convincing with the stock tube, as they are with the Mullards, Siemens or even the GEs.  This was evident with either preamp, and especially with the Fritzspeakers Carbon 7s and AAD 2001s.  I felt the GE 6201s in the ICEBlocks had the best neutrally balanced sound in this region.  Feist and Margo Timmons vocals were glorious and seductive with the GEs and Mullards in the circuit.  Even R.E.M.’s “Monster” sounded passable with these tubes.  Regardless of the preamp or tube type, the midrange presentation is not especially forward, more like being in the middle of the concert space, which I like.

Bass region:  Bass is articulate, fast and tuneful, regardless of the particular tube or associated equipment, though the M preamp has a slightly tighter presentation.  With the AAD 2001’s ability to go lower, fairly low bass was more than adequate in my listening room.  No complaints in this region.

Timbre/Transients/attack/decay:  I did not hear smearing or lingering decay.  Transient attacks came and went quickly as they should.  Properly recorded piano notes sounded fairly real.  Bass plucking and attack notes sounded natural.  Drums and cymbals had fairly proper timbre.  The sonic accuracy of cymbals is difficult to reproduce with audio electronics.  From my experience, this is especially true with some solid state gear, often sounding tinny rather than a brassy, clashing sound.  I’ve also heard the opposite presentation with some tube amps, i.e., cymbal and bass sounds being overly bloated.  Neither presentation sounds real, so it is nice to hear a component which is relatively accurate.

Dynamics/Power: Like horsepower in engines, there is no substitute for power in watts.  These amps will drive Apogees and Sound Labs with no problem.  Compared to my 50 watt solid state and tube amps, soft sounds are softer and loud sounds are louder, and there is more variance with sound levels in between.  To use a Spinal Tap reference, the volume goes to eleven on a ten step amp.  Play Don’t Get Around Much Anymore on the When Harry Met Sally soundtrack, or the New World Symphony to hear dynamics at its best with these amps.

Imaging/Sound staging: While these qualities are more audio related and rarely present in live music, it is important to have when one invests a fair amount of money to reproduce them.  Spatial and depth cues are very good though not exceptional with these amps.  If the recording has good imaging and depth, the amps will reproduce these qualities to a good degree.

Ease of operation:  The amps are simple to use and they ooze quality construction.  The amps run cool all day long.  One minor complaint with all Virtue Audio products is the absence of an owner’s manual, regardless of the simplicity of operation a manual should be included.  In conclusion, these amps are chameleon in nature.  They are flexible since one can tailor the sound to his/her liking.  Once the desired sound is achieved, you can forget about fussing with the equipment and just enjoy listening to music.  After all, that’s my main raison d’être for being in this hobby anyway.

Paul Mah

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Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #21 on: 13 May 2010, 02:35 am »
Paul,
What an amazing review.  Sounds like you've provided enough information there for a user manual so I'll write one next week.  Mind posting where customers can buy those other tubes you tried?  Tube rolling is a great feature of this amp, agreed totally!!!  Go Gary!!!
Seth

jtsnead

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #22 on: 13 May 2010, 03:52 am »
second the opinion of a very good review!
Seth also great review in Affordable Audio,
TEMPTING!

Levi

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #23 on: 13 May 2010, 04:14 am »
Great review.  Where do I sign in?!?  LOL.  :thumb:

satfrat

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Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #24 on: 13 May 2010, 05:26 am »
Sweet review Paul and especially sweet gear to have access to,,, 250 wpc (@ 8 Ohms) IceBlock monoblock amps, each with a Dodd tube buffer, feeding those Carbon 7 monitors that use Scan-Speak drivers, it's no wonder you were motivated to do such a descriptive review.  :hyper:  As you stated, there's no replacement for actual hands-on power, especially at low volumes. You've gotten me envious Paul,,, way more so than when I got to hear Virtues 1st amp offering from you, which really wasn't my cup of tea in the type of amp that I like. But you've really hit a home run with the IceBlock M5001 and the Fritz Carbon 7 monitor with it's Scan-Speak driver,,, now you're talking the talk & walking the walk! (IMHO)  :dance:
 
Cheers,
Robin

Mariusz

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #25 on: 13 May 2010, 01:30 pm »
Nicely done Paul.
Informative review.
Would love to see the fallow up with pictures of the unit under review, associated gear (components, tubes etc) and general shot of your system.
Members will certainly find your review useful.....I know I did.

P.S
These amps (as well as other Virtue gear) look really sweet in person.
Combining IceBlock technology with simple but effective solution from Dodd Audio seems like a winning combination to me. 


Thank You Paul for taking the time to share your experiences with Virtue IceBlock monoblocks & Dodd's tube buffer twist.

Cheers
Mariusz  :thumb:   
 
« Last Edit: 13 May 2010, 04:19 pm by Mariusz »

pumpkinman

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Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #26 on: 13 May 2010, 08:12 pm »
I was quite empressed with the methodology of your approach to this review. The review was performed with almost scientific analysis...yet gave your personal opinion along the way. The step by step break down of what you started with, what equipment was used, what music was listened to, and what changes were made in an attempt to improve sound quality was nicely done. The systematic brake down of each tonal range as it applies to different music genres, gives each listener a chance to critigue the Virtue Audio power amps as it applies to hir os her musical tastes. Nice Job Paul!!!
...........................Pumpkinkings can appreciate your efforts
« Last Edit: 6 Sep 2010, 08:00 pm by pumpkinman »

ltr317

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #27 on: 13 May 2010, 10:06 pm »
Based on the recommendation of several AC members, I've taken a few photos of some of the components used in the review.  As this was my first attempt at a product review, I heartily appreciate the positive comments made on this thread and from several private messages.  Thanks everyone.



ICEBlock with Zebra wood top panel.



ICEBlock internals.



Piano M1 cdp, flanked by ICEBlock monos.



Piano cdp with China Burlwood top, "Clouds" light blue side panels and aluminum columns.  Beautiful!  :thumb:  :thumb:



Fritzspeakers Carbon 7 and AAD 2001


 
AAD 2001 and Heybrook HB150








« Last Edit: 14 May 2010, 06:25 am by ltr317 »

saisunil

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #28 on: 13 May 2010, 10:21 pm »
Excellent review Paul.
It was pleasant to read (shall we say musical ... ;) ))yet provided very useful information in terms of configurations as well as evaluation point (in other words - analytical :lol: ).

In some way your approach tell us the character of this amp - analytically musical - as long as your tube roll it to suit your taste and system matching.

Cheers
Sunil.

Mariusz

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #29 on: 13 May 2010, 10:37 pm »
Thanks for pics Paul.
Pictures help visualize reviewer's experience.
It also makes the review more intimate and personal.

P.S
those Fritzspeakers match IceBlock monos perfectly.
Sweet!

Zebra wood finish rocks!  My personal favorite.


Mariusz

satfrat

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Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #30 on: 13 May 2010, 11:06 pm »
That carbon fiber Scan-Speak driver in that Fritz monitor cries sweet midrange. Thanks for the pictures Paul. That IceBlock amp is pretty good size compared to that hand held Virtue amp I remember you having. I hope to have an opportunity to listen to a set of these mono Ice amps sometime down the road Paul.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin

eclein

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Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #31 on: 14 May 2010, 10:27 pm »
Wow--great review, Thanks Paul!! :thumb: :thumb:

mjosef

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #32 on: 15 May 2010, 02:11 am »
Hey Paul was that cd player(Piano M1) there when I last visited, don't remember seeing it.
Nice write up.  :thumb:

Lyndon

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #33 on: 20 May 2010, 02:18 am »
Excellent review, Paul.
I especially like using different types of music to "flesh out" the points you are making about the sound of
the gear you have implemented in your system.
And the photos with the the tops off also makes me go back and read your review points again.
You said you passed the review pieces on to someone else.  Are they planning to post here or on another audio forum?
Thanks again,
Lyndon

ltr317

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #34 on: 20 May 2010, 02:46 am »
Excellent review, Paul.
I especially like using different types of music to "flesh out" the points you are making about the sound of
the gear you have implemented in your system.
And the photos with the the tops off also makes me go back and read your review points again.
You said you passed the review pieces on to someone else.  Are they planning to post here or on another audio forum?
Thanks again,
Lyndon


Thanks, appreciate your comments.  The ICEBlock monos and Piano cdp are with a reviewer who writes for the online magazine Audiophilia. 

TrungT

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #35 on: 23 May 2010, 05:07 am »
Paul
Thanks for the great review.  :thumb:
Wish all the review could be detail like your.
Again, Thank You.

goldlizsts

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Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #36 on: 23 May 2010, 01:00 pm »
I have on loan a pair of the Virtue Audio M5001 ICEBlock monoblock amps and a Piano M1 cd player for audition.  Seth Krinsky, chief bottle washer of Virtue, didn’t ask me to review the amps, but I had a nice time listening to the amps and thought I would post an informal review.  I also have on loan a pair of the Fritzspeakers Carbon 7 speakers, which were used as part of the evaluation.

A little background information about myself:  I have been an off and on audiophile for approximately 35 years, but have been a continuous music lover during this period.  I have own countless pieces of audio equipment, both hi-end and mid-fi, solid state and tube.  Throughout my years of listening, I have tried to approach a new piece of equipment with the notion that I will listen using a standard of neutrality, though my own preference is for a warmer sound.

Associated equipment during listening sessions were with a McIntosh C30 solid state preamp (M), heavily modified Dynaco Pas tube preamp (D), Virtue Audio Piano M1 CD player (V), OppO 970 cdp used as transport/heavily modified ART DIO Dac (OA), Heybrook HB 150 2 way stand mounted speakers (bass to approx. 40Hz), AAD 2001 2 way stand mounted speakers (bass to approx. 30Hz), Fritzspeakers Carbon 7 stand mounted speakers (bass to approx. 40Hz).

Tubes used:  JJ 12AX7 (stock), 1960s Mullard 12AX7s, 1960s Siemens 12AT7s, 1960s GE 6201s.

CDs used for audition: The Reminder by Feist, The Trinity Session by The Cowboy Junkies, New Coat of Paint, cover songs of Tom Waits by various artists, When Harry Met Sally soundtrack by Harry Connick, Jr, My One and Only Thrill by Melody Gardot, Monster by R.E.M., and Symphony No. 9 in E minor (From The New World) by Antonin Dvorak, LSO conducted by Istvan Kertesz.

The Feist and CBJ cds were chosen for their extended treble and well recorded acoustic ambiance.  The Tom Waits cd was chosen for its tonal balance and beautifully recorded midrange.  The When Harry Met Sally cd was chosen for dynamics and sound quality.  The Melody Gardot cd was chosen for recording excellence and a “live” sound.  The Dvorak cd was chosen for tonal and instrumental complexity, as well as dynamics.  The R.E.M. cd was chosen for its mediocre sound quality.

Since the pair that Gary Dodd sent me were two of the first M5001s with the tube buffer made, Seth suggested I burn them in for approximately 150 hours, which I did with an extra 50 hours thrown in for good measure.  I had an Al Kooper cd on repeat for a continuous nine days.  Glad I didn’t use that cd for evaluation purposes, as I need to get away from it for a while.

The following is my listening impressions over the course of several weeks:

Tonal balance and general sound: Listening was initially with the stock JJ ECC803S/12AX7 tubes.  Tonal balance was fairly good throughout the frequency spectrum, with a touch of leanness in the midrange and lower mid-range.  This quality was evident with both M and D preamps, and all speaker models.  Swapping the JJs with the Mullards or, Siemens produced a fuller midrange, and at times providing holographic vocals, especially with the D preamp.  Instrumental timbres were good to very good (depending on the recording), sometimes giving an illusion of hearing real instruments being played.  Overall, music produced by the ICEBlocks with the stock tubes sounded much like a hybrid amp, neither exactly neutral nor overly warm.  After switching to the Siemens or GEs, the sound was slightly fuller, and the treble became smoother, yet still extended.  Another switch, this time to the Mullards produced a warmer midrange and smoother but less extended treble.  The Mullards made the ICEBlocks sound more like full tube amps.  The Mullards also produced smooth and round musical notes.  For those who want a more incisive sound, stick with either the JJs or the GE 6201s.

Treble frequencies: With the JJ tubes, I heard occasional excessive sibilance on both the Feist and CBJ recordings on either preamp.   Switching to the Mullards or Siemens, sibilance was controlled and any amount presented sounded more natural.  For listeners who are especially sensitive to high frequency energy, a change in the tube will help smooth out the sound.  Otherwise, the M5001 monoblocks were able to convey the resolution produced by either the M or D preamp.

Midrange frequencies: As this is the meat of most music, I am especially critical of equipment which is lacking in this region.  With the stock 12AX7, the sound in this region was good to very good.  As mentioned, there is a slight leanness in this region with the stock tube.  Also, vocal inflections, styling and emotion were not as convincing with the stock tube, as they are with the Mullards, Siemens or even the GEs.  This was evident with either preamp, and especially with the Fritzspeakers Carbon 7s and AAD 2001s.  I felt the GE 6201s in the ICEBlocks had the best neutrally balanced sound in this region.  Feist and Margo Timmons vocals were glorious and seductive with the GEs and Mullards in the circuit.  Even R.E.M.’s “Monster” sounded passable with these tubes.  Regardless of the preamp or tube type, the midrange presentation is not especially forward, more like being in the middle of the concert space, which I like.

Bass region:  Bass is articulate, fast and tuneful, regardless of the particular tube or associated equipment, though the M preamp has a slightly tighter presentation.  With the AAD 2001’s ability to go lower, fairly low bass was more than adequate in my listening room.  No complaints in this region.

Timbre/Transients/attack/decay:  I did not hear smearing or lingering decay.  Transient attacks came and went quickly as they should.  Properly recorded piano notes sounded fairly real.  Bass plucking and attack notes sounded natural.  Drums and cymbals had fairly proper timbre.  The sonic accuracy of cymbals is difficult to reproduce with audio electronics.  From my experience, this is especially true with some solid state gear, often sounding tinny rather than a brassy, clashing sound.  I’ve also heard the opposite presentation with some tube amps, i.e., cymbal and bass sounds being overly bloated.  Neither presentation sounds real, so it is nice to hear a component which is relatively accurate.

Dynamics/Power: Like horsepower in engines, there is no substitute for power in watts.  These amps will drive Apogees and Sound Labs with no problem.  Compared to my 50 watt solid state and tube amps, soft sounds are softer and loud sounds are louder, and there is more variance with sound levels in between.  To use a Spinal Tap reference, the volume goes to eleven on a ten step amp.  Play Don’t Get Around Much Anymore on the When Harry Met Sally soundtrack, or the New World Symphony to hear dynamics at its best with these amps.

Imaging/Sound staging: While these qualities are more audio related and rarely present in live music, it is important to have when one invests a fair amount of money to reproduce them.  Spatial and depth cues are very good though not exceptional with these amps.  If the recording has good imaging and depth, the amps will reproduce these qualities to a good degree.

Ease of operation:  The amps are simple to use and they ooze quality construction.  The amps run cool all day long.  One minor complaint with all Virtue Audio products is the absence of an owner’s manual, regardless of the simplicity of operation a manual should be included.  In conclusion, these amps are chameleon in nature.  They are flexible since one can tailor the sound to his/her liking.  Once the desired sound is achieved, you can forget about fussing with the equipment and just enjoy listening to music.  After all, that’s my main raison d’être for being in this hobby anyway.

Paul Mah

Well-written, enjoyed reading it.  :drool: :thumb:


jdbrian

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #37 on: 20 Jun 2010, 03:34 pm »
Hi Folks

  I bought a set of Iceblocks and they are on their way to me. One thing I am curious about is the balanced or SE inputs and if anyone has experimented with them to see which works best. For the moment I have both outputs on my pre but the bal. outs are just an inverter circuit added to the sE so they are not truely balanced. I will be shopping for a pre soon and want to know if balanced is worth the extra $

Brian

ltr317

Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #38 on: 6 Sep 2010, 07:55 pm »
Hi Folks

  I bought a set of Iceblocks and they are on their way to me. One thing I am curious about is the balanced or SE inputs and if anyone has experimented with them to see which works best. For the moment I have both outputs on my pre but the bal. outs are just an inverter circuit added to the sE so they are not truely balanced. I will be shopping for a pre soon and want to know if balanced is worth the extra $

Brian


Hi Brian,

Sorry for the delayed response, as I just saw your posting.  Unless you're planning to run extra long  interconnects the simple answer is no, based on my experience. 

Paul

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Re: ICEBlock with Dodd Tube Buffer listening impressions
« Reply #39 on: 20 Sep 2010, 10:05 am »
    It is very daunting trying to write a review on the Ice Blocks after reading Mr. Paul Mah. 
So let me say this up front, if you are only go to read one review of the IBs, stop reading this and proceed directly to Mr. Mah's; his review is that good.   
    Still here?  Well, here is my impressions and my suggestion for necessary tweaks. 

                                                                    Dominant Impressions:
    There are two;
1. Ease of Use
2.The Gigantic, Enormous, "Ginermous" Sound that the IBs throw.
    Discussed in order. 

    1.The IBs are like 250 Watt Tube amps that throw no heat, require no maintenance, and are an ease and breeze to set up.  And look damn good doing it if I may add.  You cannot get any easier then dealing with these amps.  And did I mention 250 Watts?  Which leads us to impression number 
two. 
2. These are 250 Watt Amps.  The ease of presentation, the huge soundstage, the micro and macro dynamics (all ably discussed by Mr. Mah) is audiophile bliss.  These Amps never run out of steam; you are never left with the sense of wanting more. 
    When coupled with Impression number one, it is an awesome combination. 

                                                                                  Tweaks
    I feel that there are two necessary tweaks for the IBs to really demonstrate what all they are capable of. 
Again discussed in order. 

1. NOS Tubes make a tremendous difference.  Having followed Following what Paul Mah wrote, plus following the thread on the Sensation, I sprung for a pair of Siemens long plate ECC83s.  I cannot stress how much of a difference NOS tubes make.  It takes a good stock amp and makes it great.  For those of you who have experience with what NOS tubes can do. you know what I am talking about.  The transformation is startling. 
2. Pangea AC-9 Power Cords.  Watts are all and good, but unless you have sufficient current driving them; it is all for naught.  It is like a car with a lot of horse power but no torque.  The Pangea cords made the sound of IBs explode! (I said the sound, not the amps!) Those 250 Watts got Turbo charged! 

    There are other tweaks that I am using, footers, tube dampers, and others.  All make the Amps sound better, but the two that I mentioned take a very good amp and make it great. 

    The IBs are chameleons, I have had them run the gamut in sound from sounding like an SET Amp to a "cojones to the wall; pedal to the metal" SS Amp.  And I have enjoyed every single type of sound that I have coxed out of them. 

    For those looking for a comparison between the Sensation and the Ice Blocks, think of the Ice Blocks as the Sensation only a lot, lot more so. 
They both exhibit the "Virtue" House Sound.  Vibrant, colorful, but most of all tuneful. 

    Now, a perfect combination would be to have the Sensation as a preamp and the Ice Blocks as your Amps (They are mono blocks) 
        That would be something! 
                         Hey Seth, can you hook me up?