Which amp for Klipsch Synergy F1?

wilbert-vanbakel · « **on:** 23 Mar 2010, 06:44 pm »

I'm researching for an audio system based on my 64GB iPod Touch, (and perhaps later harddisk based server?)
Today I went to Ultimate Electronics and I listened to the Klipsch F1 and I'm very pleased with the experience, so I ordered the pair from newegg.com for $100 less.
Sensitivity is 93dB and in my living room the airconditioning can be annoyingly loud.

I have been reading about the Miniwatt tube amp (http://www.miniwatt.com.hk/)
and the Trends Audio TA-10 Class-T Stereo Audio Amp (http://www.trendsaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37&Itemid=28)

My question is:
Based on Klipsch F1 speakers and iPod audio source (for now line out, perhaps later digital out), what would be a good fit for a high quality low-cost amp?

TrungT · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 07:24 pm »

Welcome to AC Wilbert
If you don't mind DIY, the class D amp should be great amp for it, and you can turn it loud too.

And I you can wait for couple more weeks, may be few of those old class D amp may showing up on the chopping block soon the Super class D amp come out.

Hope that help.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.msg754349;topicseen#new

dvdhwk · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 07:42 pm »

The Jolida FX10 will give you more features than either, and more power than the Miniwatt for not a lot more cash.

wilbert-vanbakel · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 06:11 pm »

I looked into DIY, it seems that it's different from building a computer (putting components together)
Perhaps that's not my first choice. Thank you though, Trung!

Galen Carol Audio is in San Antonio, do you have any experience with them, David?
Any authoritative reviews out there?

Thank you very much!

srb · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 06:32 pm »

People have been waiting for the Parts Express Dayton DTA-100 amplifier using the Tripath TK2050 chip, and it is now finally in stock. As it has just become available, there is a lack of user reviews.

I haven't heard it yet, but it looks like an attractive buy for a 30W/channel Tripath amp @ $100. Like all Tripath amps with a switch-mode power supply, it would probably benefit from a better linear power supply.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-383

Edit: I just noticed the speaker posts are banana only (fine for me as I use BFA-style banana plugs exclusively), but wanted to point that out for those that might want to use spade connectors.

Steve

roymail · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 07:23 pm »

I agree with srb that for the money, the Tripath 2050 for $100 may be what you're looking for.

However, I don't know what type of music you listen to or what volume.

Keep in mind that all speakers tend to benefit from an amp with a little more output.

srb · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 07:37 pm »

Quote from: roymail on 24 Mar 2010, 07:23 pm

Keep in mind that all speakers tend to benefit from an amp with a little more output.

True, but as the Klipsch speakers are 93dB, the DTA-100 would be less likely to run of of steam than than the MiniWatt at 3.5W/channel or the Trends TA-10 at 15W/channel.

I also edited my previous post to point out the "banana-only" speaker posts, if that were to be a consideration factor.

I am considering trying one to replace one of my two Scythe SDA-1100 10W/channel Yamaha-chipped amps in the bedroom or patio.

Steve

wilbert-vanbakel · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 07:46 pm »

In general I like baroque chamber ensembles, solo instruments (violin, piano, vocal), also choir and orchestral, but also modern like Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, celtic and folk music from all over the world.

To give you an idea...
In general the volume is not loud, the room isn't very large and carpeted, bookshelves against walls.

What do you mean by "a little more output"?

srb · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 08:00 pm »

Quote from: wilbert-vanbakel on 24 Mar 2010, 07:46 pm

What do you mean by "a little more output"?

I (and I assume roymail) mean that with some additional watts, there would be a greater reserve or headroom to avoid clipping of peaks from Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones or Eric Clapton!

Steve

wilbert-vanbakel · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 08:03 pm »

So, not 3.5 or 10 Watt, but better 30 or 50 Watt?

Mariusz · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 08:22 pm »

93db with 10wpc ?..... that is planty (in most cases). Unless you want those live concert levels with (high sound pressure levels SPL) some reserve to prevent your speakers from going into a shock (distortion).

Mariusz

srb · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: wilbert-vanbakel on 24 Mar 2010, 08:03 pm

So, not 3.5 or 10 Watt, but better 30 or 50 Watt?

That would be my recommendation. But certainly there have been MiniWatt buyers that have used that 3.5W amp with 93dB + efficient speakers.

Tube amps tend to soft-clip the waveform when overdriven, and the resultant sound is more forgiving than solid state amps which lop off the top of the waveform, in effect producing a quasi-square wave, which results in a pretty harsh and nasty sounding distortion.

My 10W/channel Yamaha-chipped amp in combination with my 90dB speakers produces a nice background level sound, but when I turn it up louder, like I would in my small living room, the sound can become somewhat harsh.

A 15W/channel Tripath with 93dB speakers would be much better in that respect. Also the Dayton DTA-100, although called a 50W amp in the title, is later called a 30W/channel @ 8 ohm @ .01% THD in the description. I believe the Teac A-L700P 3- channel amplifier also used the Tripath TK2050 chips, and was rated at 30W/channel.

Red Wine Audio, who initially manufactured the Clari-T 6W/channel Tripath amplifier, later retired that model in favor of 30W/channel models which provided users with additional headroom and the ability to turn it up when required.

Steve

wilbert-vanbakel · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 08:57 pm »

I want to tell you, I have always been dreaming of affordable high quality sound, I enjoy reading all the reviews. I remember when I replaced my whatever amp with a Quad 45/405 combination the shock of difference in sound I heard. Suddenly I heard instruments.

Then I moved from Europe to USA and quality sound wasn't my first priority until now.
From researching the last week I have learned so much and that is for me meaningful joy.
I'm so glad that I was able to listen to the Klipsch on Tuesday (even while in the store as opposed to a listening room).
The Klipsch F1's will arrive on Friday and I'm excited about it. I got it for $200, shipping included.

The $100 DTA 100 seems a sweet deal, while the Jolida FX10 offers more connections.

My very first idea was to connect the Roku box (streaming netflix and pandora), dvd player and iPod all together to one stereo system (standard definition TV here), but now I'm leaning towards a separate iPod based music system. I read that digital transport from my iPod and a separate DAC could deliver improvement, but that's not a priority for now.

roymail · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 09:16 pm »

Steve is correct that I was referring to having some headroom which is a good thing. With the type of music you mention in a room that's not real big, the 30 wpc with 93db sensitive speakers should be a good match.

Right now I'm using a LM3886 gainclone that's spec'd at 38 wpc with 92db speakers, and it's crazy good even in a room larger than you described.

Personally, I believe you'll be satisfied with more an the 3.5 watt Miniwatt amp. I've owned a Red Wine ClariT amp, 6 wpc, operating on an SLA battery, and it's was pretty amazing with 93db single driver speakers.

If you don't want to invest a lot of $$$, the little Dayton TK2050 is what I'd recommend to you. Otherwise, beyond that price point, there are many other good options.

One more thing to confuse you, ClassD is certainly worth considering. The technology is not new but it has proved itself over the last several years and has become more affordable. It seems more and more companies are manufacturing products based on ClassD these days.

srb · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 09:21 pm »

Quote from: wilbert-vanbakel on 24 Mar 2010, 08:57 pm

The $100 DTA 100 sounds like a sweet deal, while the Jolida FX10 offers more connections.

Yes, once you add the necessity of multiple inputs, and perhaps the desire for the convenience of remote control, the simple Tripath or similar amps, although a good deal, are no longer sufficient. Once you consider the cost in adding a remote-controlled switcher or preamp to an existing amp, an amp with multiple inputs and remote control, like the Jolida FX10 or similar, makes more sense.

Also, when comparing tube amps to solid state amps, because of the differences when pushed toward clipping, as I mentioned earlier, along with other characteristics related to driving a loudspeaker load, leads many loudspeaker manufacturers to quote a different power requirement range for tube and solid state amps.

One example would be Salk Sound's Recommended Amplification specification for their popular SongTower speakers:

30 - 150 tube watts
80 -250 solid state watts

And this is often echoed by other manufacturers, i.e. that a tube watt can often equal two solid state watts.

Although I have not tried a digital dock with my iPod, I have compared the analog output from the iPod to my music server's digital output into a separate DAC. I'm sure you will enjoy the sound from your iPod, your coming speakers and whichever amp you choose, but in the future if you decide to either extract the digital stream from the iPod or from a music server into a DAC, you will find that upgrade to be more than subtle.

Steve

dvdhwk · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 11:57 pm »

Quote from: wilbert-vanbakel on 24 Mar 2010, 06:11 pm

I looked into DIY, it seems that it's different from building a computer (putting components together)
Perhaps that's not my first choice. Thank you though, Trung!

Galen Carol Audio is in San Antonio, do you have any experience with them, David?
Any authoritative reviews out there?

Thank you very much!

Galen is super nice and really goes the extra distance to make sure you're satisfied. I've purchased a few things from him over the years and it's always been a nice experience.

I haven't seen any formal reviews as of yet just the show coverage. I hope someone like Affordable Audio or Stereo Mojo gets one in for a listen soon. Another cool feature of the FX 10 is that if you get another unit sometime in the future they can be bridged for mono operation effectively doubling the power output.

wilbert-vanbakel · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Mar 2010, 04:11 pm »

Something I didn't know, floorstanding speakers are not priced per pair by retailers, although Klipsch publishes their recommended price per pair. So I quickly ordered another F1 speaker and now the website (newegg.com) shows sold out, I got the last pair for a reasonable price.

Because of this extra order I went back to Dayton DTA 100, and now Parts Express also show sold out until May. On ebay I only found similar products with TK2020 or TK2024 chips, not the TK2050.

In this forum I see a threat started in January where a forum member shows a Jolida FX for $330, but I can't find such price anywhere on the internet.

What do you fellow audiophiles think of the JV5 Tube Amp?
(http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4&products_id=374)

srb · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Mar 2010, 06:22 pm »

In general, most speakers, whether floorstanding or monitors, are sold by the pair. I have frequently though, seen consumer models of Klipsch and Polk sold singly. You just happened to pick one of the vendors selling singles, while some other vendors sell them by the pair.

When I mentioned the Dayton DTA-100 3 days ago, it was in stock, but it looks like they sold out rather quickly, as often happens with vendors who offer email notifications when an item is back in stock.

The ALO JV5 was manufactured by Dared as the MP-5.

It was also sold with a companion iPod dock (and no USB input) by Sonic Integrity as the TubePod and from TL Audio as the Fatman iTube ValveDock. In ALO's product listing for the JV5, when they refer to "No goofy graphics printed on the amp", they were referring to the Fatman version.

Of course, it only has 1 analog input and 1 USB input, selected by a toggle switch on the rear panel. I have not heard one, but with all the variants out there, I would imagine one or more AC members have.

Steve

wilbert-vanbakel · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Apr 2010, 08:34 pm »

Today I got the Dayton DTA-1, and the Klipsch F1 speakers are connected.

The source is line-out from my iPod and while I write this post, we enjoy listening to Eric Clapton's 'Unplugged' recording. The volume knob is at 1 o'clock, and it's loud enough. What a pleasure!
I did mind your advice with regards to more power or tube amps, but with this small purchase I bought myself some more time to consider the options. Perhaps I get a $400 tube amp after another paycheck, or perhaps I get the DTA-100 when it comes available.

And with digital transport in the future I have something to look forward to and appreciate.

I appreciate your support!
Still I do have a question concerning speaker wires, Klipsch advices "16 gauge or larger", does that mean that 24 gauge is better or is 12 gauge better? Looking at my stripper it seems that smaller numbers are wider?

Enjoying the sound in my living room!
Thank you all very much!

srb · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Apr 2010, 08:50 pm »

Yes, smaller gauge numbers are larger wire.

When you say you are using the line-out from your iPod, I take that to mean you are using the line-out derived from the bottom dock connector, and not the headphone output jack?

Steve