Atma-Sphere amps

arthurs · « **Reply #40 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 09:36 pm »

James - the music on your website is outstanding and the Thorell guitars look absolutely beautiful!

arthurs · « **Reply #41 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 09:50 pm »

Duke - any chance the Dreamakers are coming to LSAF with you?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #42 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 11:51 pm »

Quote

James - the music on your website is outstanding

I agree. Are these tracks available or simply from your own collection. As good as it sounds on a laptop, I can only imagine how it would sound on a system.

Duke · « **Reply #43 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 12:42 am »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 24 Mar 2010, 08:24 pm

Hey Duke:

Can you explain a bit more about the difference between the Atma 30 and 60 in terms of sound and the impedance thing.

Thanks.

Rocket_Ronny

I've only heard them side-by-side once, and it was on my Dream Makers. So power was not an issue - either one has plenty of juice. The M-60 sounded more refined, tighter control. It's not like you'd listen to the S-30 and go, "hmmm... not refined enough"; it's just in an A/B that's the impression I got.

Quote from: arthurs on 24 Mar 2010, 09:50 pm

Duke - any chance the Dreamakers are coming to LSAF with you?

Hi Arthur, I don't yet know what I'll be bringing to LSAF but it won't be the Dream Makers. They are heavy and a pain and I think well above the price range that LSAF is geared towards.

That being said, I have a Dream Maker style speaker that is a candidate for LSAF. Here's a picture:

Sixteen ohms; 95 dB; bass extension to about 43 Hz with solid state and probably mid 30's with an S-30; $3900 a pair.

This speaker is called the Cloud Chaser, and I'll be starting a separate thread about it soon. More than likely either the Cloud Chasers or Rhythm Prisms will be at Lone Star.

arthurs · « **Reply #44 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 01:21 am »

Quote from: Response Audio on 24 Mar 2010, 11:51 pm

I agree. Are these tracks available or simply from your own collection. As good as it sounds on a laptop, I can only imagine how it would sound on a system.

Well....I can find Frank Vignola, I just can't find the songs he is playing on James site...

arthurs · « **Reply #45 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 02:50 am »

Quote from: Duke on 25 Mar 2010, 12:42 am

Hi Arthur, I don't yet know what I'll be bringing to LSAF but it won't be the Dream Makers.

Duke · « **Reply #46 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 03:49 am »

Sorry about that, Arthur! But you would be able to get a pretty good idea of what to expect from the Cloud Chasers, assuming that's what I bring. The larger box of the Dream Makers gives them about 1/3 octave deeper extension. When I brought the Dream Makers to Lone Star in 2008, the biggest problem was too much bass in that small room. The round waveguide of the Dream Makers is a bit smoother, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how uncolored the rectangular waveguide horn is.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #47 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 05:18 am »

A sincere thanks for the compliments about the site and the music therein. Sorry I won't have time to address the questions about the site's music jukebox till tomorrow; possibly the artist names were mixed up.

The live Frank Vignola Trio CD (2009, www.FrankVignola.com, #FV9) was well worth the $25 I paid. Besides drawing you in to Frank's light and poignant touch on his Thorell FV arch top, the sound quality is very good. The occasional, involuntary, not-too-loud, "oooh", "ahhh", and "yes" from the audience intensify the live effect.

Hoping to have pictures posted shortly at my site of the Thorell arch top going to Tommy Emmanuel for his upcoming tour (at least one show with Vignola).

Sorry for OT; please return to your normal programming.

jhm731 · « **Reply #48 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 06:01 am »

Why design high efficiency speakers, and then drive them with an amp with a power consumption of 400 watts?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #49 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 06:15 am »

Quote

Hi Arthur, I don't yet know what I'll be bringing to LSAF but it won't be the Dream Makers. They are heavy and a pain and I think well above the price range that LSAF is geared towards.

But they do sound very good.....

RMAF 2007......

Duke · « **Reply #50 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 06:24 am »

Quote from: jhm731 on 25 Mar 2010, 06:01 am

Why design high efficiency speakers, and then drive them with an amp with a power consumption of 400 watts?

Because that's how we kill two birds with one stone and heat our homes in winter?

Seriously, running an amplifier in Class A triode mode has definite benefits, but electrical efficiency is not one of them.

Duke · « **Reply #51 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 06:30 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 25 Mar 2010, 06:15 am

But they do sound very good.....

My speakers are always on their best behavior when honored with the presence of the Lonewolf.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #52 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 05:40 pm »

Duke's tidy "Cloud Chaser" pictured above has even more appeal in person. I had the pleasure of seeing (empty) enclosures about a month ago. The shape, finish, and proportions are pleasing and inviting. I love the Dream Maker, but its new, smaller, lower priced cousin with similar DNA rates higher in WAF and overall cosmetic appeal unless one prefers the beefier presence of the original. An AudioKinesis offset bipole for lower cost (IIRC) than the monopole Jazz Module seems like a good proposition. The multiple enclosure angles must add complexity and cost.

My cosmetic preference (CL vs. DM) would depend on the room volume. I've tired of oversize speaker/room matches. IIRC my favorite sound at 2009 CES (Duke did not display) was Allan Perkins' Immedia room with $2800/pr Anima standmounts by Sonics by Joachim Gerhard in one of the small Venetian Hotel rooms (his superior $25k TT obviously helped). I later learned Joachim makes a special $2500 deluxe XO upgrade, and wonder if it was installed in that system. Some single XO inductors cost multiple thousands USD but don't ask me why.

226bw · « **Reply #53 on:** 26 Mar 2010, 03:51 pm »

I appreciate the feedback on the Atmas-sphere amps. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with their preamps and the optional built in phone stage? Specifically the MP-3 but any thoughts on their phono sections would be appreciated.

Also wondering if you can use an external phono stage with RCA rather than balanced (XLR) output with their amps?

I've checked the reviews but for some reason built in phono sections rarely get much copy.

Cheers,
Chris

Lyndon · « **Reply #54 on:** 26 Mar 2010, 04:00 pm »

Met Ralph K. several years ago at a Minneapolis audio shop. Very, very nice guy.
But wanted to know if anyone at AC has had experience with the much smaller OTL amps from Transcendent Audio? I always thought they were the cheaper way to try out the topology.
Lyndon

toobluvr · « **Reply #55 on:** 26 Mar 2010, 05:05 pm »

Quote from: Duke on 25 Mar 2010, 06:24 am

Because that's how we kill two birds with one stone and heat our homes in winter?

Seriously, running an amplifier in Class A triode mode has definite benefits, but electrical efficiency is not one of them.

Years ago I owned a pair of AtmaSphere M60 monos. Probably the best amp I have ever owned--along with some Class A SET, maybe. I sold them cause at the time I lived in a hot NYC apt and I just couldn't deal with the heat in the summer. But no doubt, great amps sonically. With the right speaker and robust A/C I would own them again.

Duke · « **Reply #56 on:** 27 Mar 2010, 09:32 pm »

Quote from: 226bw on 26 Mar 2010, 03:51 pm

I was wondering if anyone has had experience with their preamps and the optional built in phone stage? Specifically the MP-3 but any thoughts on their phono sections would be appreciated.

Also wondering if you can use an external phono stage with RCA rather than balanced (XLR) output with their amps?

In my experience there is a really, really sweet synergy between Atma-Sphere amps & preamps. I definitely recommend the regulated power supply upgrade for any MP-3. I don't have a turntable so can't comment on the phono stage based on ownership, but Ralph listens to vinyl all the time so that tells you where his priority lies. The Atma-Sphere preamps each have two tape loops, and the RCA inputs on the tape loops can be used as the inputs for anything that needs an RCA jack.

Quote from: Lyndon on 26 Mar 2010, 04:00 pm

...experience with the much smaller OTL amps from Transcendent Audio? I always thought they were the cheaper way to try out the topology.

My understanding is that Transcendent Audio amps use considerably more global negative feedback than Atma-Sphere amps do (somebody correct me if I'm wrong), which implies that speaker matching would be less of an issue but then from a purist standpoint you'd be making a tradeoff.

zybar · « **Reply #57 on:** 27 Mar 2010, 10:17 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 26 Mar 2010, 05:05 pm

Years ago I owned a pair of AtmaSphere M60 monos. Probably the best amp I have ever owned--along with some Class A SET, maybe. I sold them cause at the time I lived in a hot NYC apt and I just couldn't deal with the heat in the summer. But no doubt, great amps sonically. With the right speaker and robust A/C I would own them again.

John nailed the two "challenges" associated with the Atma-Sphere amps (neither of which have to do with sonics):

1. Heat produced - all Atma-Sphere amps run in pure Class A and they will raise the room temp (especially in the summer)

2. Electricity use - takes a lot of electricity to run all those tubes in pure Class A

If you can work around these two challenges, you will be rewarded in a big way.

George

226bw · « **Reply #58 on:** 27 Mar 2010, 10:44 pm »

Thanks for the reply Duke.
I did find the following from a review in SoundStage. It is in reference to the MP1 but it does speak to the quality of the Atma-Sphere phono sections.

"Listening to the Audio Research PH7 connected to the Atma-Sphere line stage versus using the MP-1 Mk III’s native phono section, there were times when I had to double-check which one I was using. They each have their sonic traits, but differences are very subtle and not ones of fundamental character. The faintest of layers appeared when switching to the PH7 -- one more petticoat, one more mattress between the princess and her pea. Call it a thin brushing of warmth. I was equally impressed with each unit’s fine-spun delineation of pianissimo violins -- a high compliment to the MP-1 Mk III, as until hearing it, I’d heard no finer than the PH7 in this department. "

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/atmasphere_mp1iii.htm

And this from Enjoy the Music re MP3
"This excellent-sounding phono section adds just $550 to the price of a line-stage-only MP-3. I suspect it would be hard to find a separate phono stage near that price that would deliver the impressive combination of glorious dynamics, timbral fidelity, imaging precision and voluminous soundscaping that I heard from the MP-3 with record after record."

Cheers,
Chris

Duke · « **Reply #59 on:** 9 Apr 2010, 10:18 pm »

In another thread I posted some comments Ralph Karsten made about one of my discontinued models, the stand-mount Stormbringer. He claims that, on the S-30, their bass extends quite deep - actually somewhat deeper than I would have expected. I think I claimed extension down into the upper 30's or lower 40's, and he claims the combination demonstrated extension into the upper 20's.

Here's the link.

My point is, when the synergy is right between Atma-Sphere amp and speaker, there's a possible "free lunch" available in the low bass department. One could expect similar results from other amplifiers having a similarly high output impedance, but I think such amps are quite rare.