Florida EHX 2010 Show

Napalm · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 07:15 pm »

Quote from: adol290 on 29 Mar 2010, 07:04 pm

Interesting points, but i am curious

What are people here doing to tune their 5.1 HT systems to a room without a room correction product.

The bass is one thing(sub-woofer/crossover), and I understand that. Interesting that most people use a room correction product for the sub-woofer.

But how do you balance the rest of the full range speakers in a 5.1 system, using something like a pair of PMC EB1i's and say CB6i's for centre and surrounds.

You can set distances of the speakers, and the proper toe in as suggested by THX. Room treatments.
SPL each speaker. Anything else.

Apparently James was able to reap the "Best Sound" Award at Florida EHX 2010 Show by doing nothing more.

Nap.

gdbalp · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 10:46 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 28 Mar 2010, 03:55 pm

Hi Folks,

Just got back from the 2010 EHX Show in Florida and I am happy to report that our demo won 2 awards from CE Pro the organizers of the show:

1. Best Sound!
2. Most Informative Demo!
(I got the award plaques to prove it)

Audio System was:

Speakers: new Thiel SCS4T Speakers (7 speakers) and 4-SS2 Subwoofers.
Projector: new Sim2 L.E.D. unit
Power Conditioner: Torus RM20 AVR
Power Amps : 6B SST2 (LCR) and 9B SST2 (surrounds)
Processor: SP3 (prototype)
DVD Player: OPPO

james

Hi James,

To begin with - Congratulations on the Awards!

Just a simple question with the selection of amplifiers you used for the show. You used a 6b (LFC) + 9b (surrounds), do you prefer having the same power to the front/left/centre speakers? I use a 4b (LF) + 9b (surrounds + C) for example...

Ciao,
Luigi

James Tanner · « **Reply #22 on:** 29 Mar 2010, 11:22 pm »

Hi Luigi,

I generally use twice the power on the main left and right speakers (unless the Center is the same speaker as the left/right). In this case the LCR was the same speaker.

james

Mag · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 Mar 2010, 02:29 am »

Before I had Room Correction I used the SPL meter with test tones from a cd. Not the test tones from the av/receiver as time duration was too short to get an accurate read. Then using Room Correction, the settings that I had done manually, only the balance was off a bit, it wasn't a major correction.

However it adjusted the bass settings much too low. Which I lived with for quite awhile, until I went back and adjusted the bass manually. I much prefer the manual bass settings to how it was set with RC.

IMO with careful listening over a period of time (several weeks). You can get a pretty accurate setting manually. However I like having the parametric EQ.

MOZ · « **Reply #24 on:** 30 Mar 2010, 07:51 am »

Quote from: adol290 on 29 Mar 2010, 07:04 pm

What are people here doing to tune their 5.1 HT systems to a room without a room correction product.

That is my point !
You have two ways of doing things :

- case n°1, well you have the chance to have a dedicated and professionnaly treated room -> what a lucky man you're

- case n°2, most of "regular consummers" i guess, well... you've got your living room and you have to deal with it !!!
If you stay without room EQ, as good as the SP3 will be... you just won't get the results you should get ! just because a living room is not made for HT/music reproduction !

So the thing is, if possible, don't use EQ (i'm ok with that !), if not... use a "minimum" EQ to get things right. If you have a terrible room, there won't be any EQ to cure things, anyway !
I personnaly recommand to use a light or medium correction, no more...
Tuning the low ends is about 80% of the troubles generally. You can do it with sub's own EQs.
Adding room EQ with the pre will just smooth things and sort out the "little problems" that are still there. 200Hz is well enough, James is right.

James if you consider the EQ thing, you might get it under "professionnal abilities" if you want to be sure of the results... Consummer would need to get a pro in order to do/use the EQ at home...
Audyssey has a professionnal program for this (for exemple) -> see the Denon pre/pro...

JRace · « **Reply #25 on:** 30 Mar 2010, 04:54 pm »

Congrats!

If I may add my $0.02, I think your idea of room correction only for 200Hz down would be a fantastic feature. As long as you can:
a) turn it off if desired
b) see what adjustments were done
c) override any and all adjustments

Mag · « **Reply #26 on:** 30 Mar 2010, 05:50 pm »

EQ in not just for room treatment. Like I have 4 different speakers. The EQ lets me chose the treble setting that sounds best with my configuration.

Gojo · « **Reply #27 on:** 30 Mar 2010, 06:25 pm »

Hi James!

With the less than positive comments the Torus has been receiving in view of the sst2 upgrades, I wanted to try and hopefully shed some positive light by asking the following: (1) did you use just 1 Torus 20 for all that hardware? (2) did you or have you in the past done a comparison of using vs not using one in a demo of this size or any other demos? That is a fair amount of hardware and amplification plugged into the unit with 4 subs and one has to think the Torus does play a role.

I’m not so sure that others have become that convinced of the power of the Torus in my reading of the various threads as of late.

Any feedback, descriptive or otherwise is always most appreciated.

Joe

James Tanner · « **Reply #28 on:** 30 Mar 2010, 06:43 pm »

Quote from: Gojo on 30 Mar 2010, 06:25 pm

Hi James!

With the less than positive comments the Torus has been receiving in view of the sst2 upgrades, I wanted to try and hopefully shed some positive light by asking the following: (1) did you use just 1 Torus 20 for all that hardware? (2) did you or have you in the past done a comparison of using vs not using one in a demo of this size or any other demos? That is a fair amount of hardware and amplification plugged into the unit with 4 subs and one has to think the Torus does play a role.

I’m not so sure that others have become that convinced of the power of the Torus in my reading of the various threads as of late.

Any feedback, descriptive or otherwise is always most appreciated.

Joe

Hi Joe,

We used the Torus on everything except the 9B. It was averaging about 6.5 amps of draw.

The Torus style transformers are only used in the bigger amps - 14B, 7B and 28B.

james

Fullvolume · « **Reply #29 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 01:05 am »

Was there a 'ballpark' price for the SP3?

James Tanner · « **Reply #30 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 01:06 am »

Quote from: Fullvolume on 31 Mar 2010, 01:05 am

Was there a 'ballpark' price for the SP3?

No sorry not yet.

james

vegasdave · « **Reply #31 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 03:27 am »

Quote from: James Tanner on 30 Mar 2010, 06:43 pm

Hi Joe,

We used the Torus on everything except the 9B. It was averaging about 6.5 amps of draw.

The Torus style transformers are only used in the bigger amps - 14B, 7B and 28B.

james

The bigger amps use Torus transformers?

Rod_S · « **Reply #32 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 10:59 am »

Quote from: James Tanner on 29 Mar 2010, 11:10 am

The chip is capable of room correction but we may not impliment it (I hate room correction) and if we do only from 200Hz and down.

james

If you include EQ I believe this approach is wisest. I own the Lexicon MC-12BV5EQ and Lexicon had spend a lot of time, money and reseach on how to perform EQ properly and the end result was to only focus on the lower frequencies. I also believe Meridian uses the same approach but don't quote me on that.

Napalm · « **Reply #33 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 01:05 pm »

Quote from: MOZ on 30 Mar 2010, 07:51 am

[...]
- case n°2, most of "regular consummers" i guess, well... you've got your living room and you have to deal with it !!!
If you stay without room EQ, as good as the SP3 will be... you just won't get the results you should get ! just because a living room is not made for HT/music reproduction !

So the thing is, if possible, don't use EQ (i'm ok with that !), if not... use a "minimum" EQ to get things right. If you have a terrible room, there won't be any EQ to cure things, anyway ![...]

Mhhhh.... Did you ever had a conversation with your family/friends in the living room? Did their voice(s) sound unnatural? Boomy, nasal, chesty, edgy, thin or whatever? Did you feel the need to use an EQ in order to understand them? No? Then why does your HT sound like that? And let's exclude subwoofer-territory bass from this discussion for now. Think conversation-driven movies with not much music soundtrack or sound effects.

Nap.

misko · « **Reply #34 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 03:43 pm »

just as napalm says..

I think that serious HT equipment(and SP3 is), need serious solutions and that would be room treatment,no question.Its the most overlooked thing in listening rooms.

..and of course congrats,james

mike

MOZ · « **Reply #35 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 04:26 pm »

Well,

You can try to figure out how to make it work without EQ in my home if you want...
I'm living in a "loft like" appartment, under roofs and the space dedicated for HT doesn't have side walls either

Clic the link below to see for yourself (old picture but space didn't change) !

Quote

Did you ever had a conversation with your family/friends in the living room? Did their voice(s) sound unnatural? Boomy, nasal, chesty, edgy, thin or whatever? Did you feel the need to use an EQ in order to understand them? No?

Talking with one person in one direction is something, talking with 8 from 8 parts of the room... is an other

Napalm · « **Reply #36 on:** 31 Mar 2010, 05:05 pm »

Quote from: MOZ on 31 Mar 2010, 04:26 pm

Clic the link below to see for yourself (old picture but space didn't change) !

ZOMG! Man that's **** up!

I'd set the speakers to "small" (yes I know what a waste of expensive bass) and play with the subwoofer's placement, volume and cross-over freq. Less (bass) is more.

Nap.

James Tanner · « **Reply #37 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 04:24 pm »

Hi All,

Picture of the Florida 2010 EHX award ceremony for the two awards "Best Audio Demo" and "Most Informative Audio Demo"

james

Ron D · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 04:34 pm »

Congrats!

Was the Oppo used with HDMI only or were the analog outputs used? Its common opinion that via HDMI the "regular" Oppo 83 differs not a smidge from the next model up, the 83SE, whose benefits tend to be realized from it's analog output.

James Tanner · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 04:39 pm »

Quote from: Ron D on 5 Apr 2010, 04:34 pm

Congrats!

Was the Oppo used with HDMI only or were the analog outputs used? Its common opinion that via HDMI the "regular" Oppo 83 differs not a smidge from the next model up, the 83SE, whose benefits tend to be realized from it's analog output.

Hi Ron,

Just the HDMI out.

james