[Mad DOg]

I've been running SOCS w/ my classic RS750s for the past 3 days and the difference I'm hearing is bigger than ANY speaker, component or cable change I've ever made.

I am going to be honest and say that SOCS may not be for everyone. Not everyone may appreciate what SOCS does, but if you're serious about 2 channel, SOCS is an ABSOLUTE must! So why might some folks prefer the non-SOCS sound? Becuz they've become accustomed to listening without speaker correction.

I know that hectic1 and I both remarked that vocals had a hollow and recessed sound to them...I felt that this was the case after I initially engaged SOCS. i had already gotten a little taste of what SOCS could do at Chappy's gathering and i liked it there so what was going on now?...Then I just decided to listen to SOCS for awhile to get accustomed to this new sound...After about 15 minutes, I toggled back to no SOCS. It was at this moment that it all just HIT me like a TON of bricks...SATORI! TRUE MUSICAL SATORI! This WAS it!...

Everything was more focused. the image of Josh Groban was no longer as wide but far more focused and realistic. The clarity and focus of sound across the frequency spectrum was amazing. While the mids weren't as forward and in your face as before, i realized that the soundstage was much deeper. Every instrument could be accurately placed w/ no blurring. The images was tight and distinct with no haziness that comes from congestion of sound. Complex musical passages were so clean! There was one track that my good friend Msteindler brought over which had the snapping of fingers in the background...With no SOCS, we could hear the finger snaps swaying a little from right to left...With SOCS, we now could hear the finger snaps not only swaying from right to left, but we could CLEARLY identify forward and backward movement as well!

The other thing that i found quite surprising was the bass...I do not recall anyone every complaining that 750 bass is sloppy. Well, after one listen to a good bass track with SOCS and toggling back, that's exactly the feeling I got. I've never been one to think that 750 bass isn't tight and defined, but after listening to SOCS and switching it off, the bass coming from my 750s was positively flabby and more 2 dimensional. there DEFINITELY was alot of bass cancellation going on. Try Avril Lavigne's "Let's Go" track 3 "Sk8r boi"...there's a bunch of seriously low bass freq that are present without SOCS...but with SOCS on? you should have seen the looks on John Casler, msteindler and my face! OH MY GOD! This is what clean in phase bass sounds like? It was totally incredible. The bass attack had way better impact and weight. the bass sustain and decay was just way improved! switching off, SOCs really flattened the sound across the board. the difference was night and day!

Anyhow, how does SOCS compare to my beloved Ref 1s? many of you guys know that I'm very fond of music through the Ref 1s...well, going back to Ref 1s after spending 2 hours with SOCS was an ear opening experence...as much as I love the Ref1s, the RS750s w/ SOCS is just that much better. I flat out preferred the SOCS fed 750s over the Ref 1s. actually I tried the Ref1s with SOCS engaged and I liked what I heard...similar improvements to the clarity and focus...I can't wait until SOCS is available for the Refs!!! HINT, HINT, Mark, as to which SOCS curve to make available!!!

To be totally honest, I can see some listeners preferring no SOCS as the no SOCS sounds "bigger". However I know that serious 2ch listeners are going to LOVE this! In fact, I can't bear to listen to music without SOCS now.

Congrats, guys, on a job WELL done!

MLS, I'm glad you never gave up on SOCS!  

[wreilly]

Hi Mad Dog

Thanks for the great review. My next uprade will be to purchase the P-3A. Can you send them directly from Perpetual to Empirical to have the mods done?

However I must be dense, or asleep ( lacking a huge amounts of morning caffine ) but where does one find out about SOCS for their speakers?

How does this ( SOCS ) fit into the DAC - Speaker connection?

As always many thanks.

Regards,
Bill

[Eric D]

Bill,

SOCS (and RCS) run on the P-1A digital processing engine, not the P-3A DAC.  At some time (either with the software or at some time after), they will be releasing a P-5, which combines the capabilities of the P-1 and p-3, plus includes analog-to-digital converters for use with any analog inputs as well as a volume control - so the P-5 can be used as a preamp as well as the correction software engine.

enjoy!

[Mad DOg]

Bill,

Sorry I didn't explain what SOCS was...

This excerpt is from Hectic1 from the av123.com forum regarding SOCS...

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2377&pagenumber=1

"SOCS (Speaker Only Correction Software)...

First off, what is SOCS? Well SOCS is a program that is used with Perpetual Technologies P-1A and it corrects phase and amplitude that plague all speakers. It also will interpolate and up sample redbook CD’s up to a true 24/96 signal. Is it speaker specific? Yes, each P-1A will have to be loaded with the coefficients for your specific speaker that you are using. What happens if Perpetual Technologies doesn’t have the measurements for you speakers? They will send you out an MMK (Mobile Measurement Kit) to take 4 measurements of your speakers. Once the measurements are taken you will need to send your P-1A and the measurements back to Perpetual Technologies. Once received, they will load the algorithms into your P-1A and you are good to go."

Hope this clarifies things a bit...

[wreilly]

Mad Dog and Eric D,

Thanks for the clarification. I take it then that Empircal does not do any Mods on the P-1.

So ( baring the release of the P-5 ) It sounds like I should get the P-1 and the P-3 with the Emperical Mods. I'm going to defer the Mods to the Sony 7700 till later. However since I just received the RS Poiema speaker and IC cables as well as the MSE Digital Link this upgrade will have to wait till this summer. With the purchace of the AVA 550EXR, the T7-EXR and the cables I blew my upgrade budget for awhile.

So, any idea when the P-5 will be available?

As to the Cables I will have more to say on them after I have had some time to do some serious listening. Just got them today.

Best Regards,
Bill

[Sa-dono]

My next uprade will be to purchase the P-3A. Can you send them directly from Perpetual to Empirical to have the mods done?

If you talk to Steve, and one of the guys from AV123, I am sure this would not be a problem. Steve would just require that you pay for the modification before he ships the unit to you.

And yes, there are no current modifications to the P-1A. Given my findings, though, some work on the power supply may be interesting.

[witchdoctor]

Is SOCS for 2 channel, Home Theater, or both?

[Sa-dono]

Is SOCS for 2 channel, Home Theater, or both?

SOCS is currently just for 2-channel. Theoretically, you could possibly use SOCS for HT with five (or seven) of the same full range speakers, having the DVD player convert DD/DTS to PCM, outputted to a pre/pro or receiver, and apply surround processing. This would just be something to try for fun, and not something I would suggest 100% HT people to go out and buy and do.

[witchdoctor]

What if you listen to music in PL2?

[zybar]

You shouldn't...

 

Sorry, not a big fan of multi-channel music.

GW

[audioengr]

I am planning to do some mods to the P-1A shortly.  One customer is shipping me both units this week, so I will evaluate what is possible.  I'm sure the P-1A has modding potential based on everything I have been able do to improve the P-3A.

[Sa-dono]

What if you listen to music in PL2?

Then what I said above about HT, with five of the same full range speaker, and using no distance or time delay settings (or other additional processing...forgot to add this earlier), this should all theoretically work. Like I said before, though, SOCS is currently specifically for 2-channel listening.

[satfrat]

You shouldn't...

 

Sorry, not a big fan of multi-channel music.

GW

                                   It's your loss George, jmo. But 2 speakers are better than 1, I'll give ya that. Regards, Robin

[Eric D]

What if you listen to music in PL2?

Then what I said above about HT, with five of the same full range speaker, and using no distance or time delay settings (or other additional processing...forgot to add this earlier), this should all theoretically work. Like I said before, though, SOCS is currently specifically for 2-channel listening.

You know - I wonder what it would be like.  I don't know how DPL2 decides what to steer - if any of it is phase-related.  I could imagine how this might be great, terrible, or even possibly vary widely.  I wonder if they've run any experiments yet?  In any case, if witchdoctor wants to use DPL to sharpen the image, he may just decide he likes SOCS better.  

And for HT, realize that SOCS/RCS corrects phase by delaying the audio, just some of the frequencies by less time than others.  If you're playing video as well, you're going to need to delay the video signal or it will always have a lip synch issue.  

Can you say "P-7A?"  

[satfrat]

And for HT, realize that SOCS/RCS corrects phase by delaying the audio, just some of the frequencies by less time than others.  If you're playing vid ...

                                           The Sunfire Theater Grand 3 processor of which both Witchdoctor and myself enjoy the multichannel bliss of DPL2 does indeed have an up to 60ms video delay adjustment. I personally don't believe that this SOCS unit is for DPL2 as this processing depends on phase shifting for it's soundfield correctness and I can only imagine this unit screwing it all up. It would be the same situation if you tried SOCS with the Sunfire in 2-channel using the processors holograghic feature. But then again, nobody will ever know what will happen til someone tries it. Witchdoctor, feel like being a testpilot? Regards, Robin