[jasonc]

I may be in the market for a pair.  They would need to be good all around performers good on all music and equally impressive on HT.   They would also need to deliver excellent bass that would eliminate any need for a sub.
So far on my short list are-
Odyssey Lorelei
Onix Reference 2

If anyone can comment on the two I've mentioned above or has any more suggestions that would be great.
I will also be powering these speakers with Panny SA-XR45 that I plan to have Wayne modify down the road.
Thanks.

[Carlman]

It really depends on your room.  I had a carpeted, wide room previously and the Revel F30's sounded amazing in every department.  However, when I moved to a house with hardwoods, they sounded too bright and harsh.... and too 'big'.. so, now I'm putting together a monitor/sub combo.

You need to do some demo's and/or at least auditions to hear the personalities of these speakers, though.  However, until they get in your room, you won't know what they're really going to sound like.

However, another one I'd add to your list is Von Schwikert's VR2.  I really liked the VR1... very natural sounding but still lively.

Do you want warm, neutral, forward, laid-back, lively, or bright sounding speakers for your gear/room... ?

[jasonc]

Thanks Carlman,
I prefer sound to be on the warm side of neutral.  The room they will be placed in is carpeted, 14w x 23.5l x 7.2h.  
I hear what you're saying about auditioning the speaker if you can however this can become more difficult with larger speakers.  I'm also lazy. Also, because these speakers will most likely be purchased from an internet based company, none of which seem to be close to me  , they can become a pricey pain to ship back and forth.  Through some good Q and A I'm hoping to get it right the first time.  
Thanks.

[Tyson]

Having heard the 626R and the RM40 extensively, I'd say that the RM30 would be a very good bet in the $3k range.  Since you're going to get the modded Panny too, might as well check w/Wayne to see if you can work a package deal, since he's a VMPS dealer too.

[jasonc]

Thanks Tyson,
I meant to include the RM30 on my list, actually being my top choice  

I currently own 626R's but I'm looking to go more full range for this bigger room.

[Carlman]

How good is your hearing?  That's a question I missed in building an audition list of speakers.  I have excellent hearing and I'm in my 30's so, that's a consideration.  I've noticed some people like speakers a little brighter than me because they have either a dead room or not so great hearing in the upper range.

All that said, if you have great hearing and want a warmer presentation, I don't think the Onix or VMPS will be the best.  I haven't heard the RM30 but, I have heard the 626 and it's very neutral.  

You may want to consider something like GR Research's speakers... maybe an AV-3'?  or ... something else entirely.  I haven't heard the Lorelei's.

Good luck.

[Tyson]

Actually, I've heard the VMPS speakers sound anywhere from bright, sterile, and hard, or lush, soft, and warm.  It's all in the tuning and the upstream equipment. . .

[Carlman]

Tyson... agreed.. there's so many variables... I think the VMPS in particular are dead neutral so, whatever your gear sounds like is what the speakers will sound like.  However, I found the Onix Ref 1 to be 'tipped up' sounding regardless of what gear I tried.

[Hantra]

Also, because these speakers will most likely be purchased from an internet based company

Why?

It makes no sense to put limits on it when you don't even know what you like, or what to buy.  Get out there and listen.  If you find what you like, who cares if the company is Internet based, or based on the moon?

I second the Von Schweikert recommendation.  As has always been the case with Von Schweikert, value for the money is amazing.  I don't know how he does it.

[jasonc]

Hantra,
I'm not willing to spend my pretious free time visiting snooty high end shops it's not my style, I know I don't like doing this.. some or many may.  I also know by cutting out the middle man I am able to afford a lot more speaker, buying direct from one of these internet based companies (we all who frequent this board know the names of) which obtain satisfied customers by word of mouth of existing happy customers and the true merits of their product than a shiny advertisement.. which in the end the consumer ends up paying for.  
I'm not saying that these speakers that occupy well distributed audio magazines as well as high end shops throughout the county don't sound good it's just that I can't afford the one's that sound as good as my VMPS "three-way" ribbon monitors.

[BrunoB]

I may be in the market for a pair.  They would need to be good all around performers good on all music and equally impressive on HT.   They would also need to deliver excellent bass that would eliminate any need for a sub.
So far on my short list are-
Odyssey Lorelei
Onix Reference 2

If you plan to build a multichannel system for HT or music, I would suggest to get speakers that are sonically similar to the one you already have. The RM30 would be a good match for the 626R.

Another question is what do you mean by "excellent bass"? If you need poweful bass extension down to 20 Hz, you will need either a sub or very large speakers.


Bruno

[Hantra]

I also know by cutting out the middle man I am able to afford a lot more speaker, buying direct from one of these internet based companies

That's quite a sweepingly broad statement.  And if you haven't heard any speakers that aren't available exclusively online, how would you know you can get more for your money.  Perhaps the "Internet based" company can get more for your money, but that doesn't mean you will.

I am not disrespecting any Internet based companies, but I am stumped as to why anyone would just automatically assume they are providing a better product for the dollar than a product available at a dealer.  Again, to limit your selection means that you may never find the perfect speaker for you.  

To me it's like buying low-priced stocks.  On occasion, you may find one that does great, but for the most part, there is a reason they are priced so low.  For example, a company like GE will never be a low-priced stock, just as a company like Von Schweikert will never be an Internet based brand.  

Why?  

Because GE has proven itself for 100 years, and has proven that it has the talent, and the business savvy to design amazing products.  By the same token, a guy like Von Schweikert has designed more high-end speakers than all Internet based companies combined.  He makes the most highly reviewed speaker in history.  Therefore, he will always have a quality name, and a quality brand, and the ability to sustain a large network of dealers.

I don't currently own Von Schweikerts, and I am not sitting here touting any one manufacturer over another.  I really just wanted to give an example of where I am coming from, and how it makes little sense, in the "search for perfection", to limit yourself to a handful of brands with comparatively little talent, and expertise.

And in a city like BOSTON, you have LOTS more opportunity than most people on this board to listen to whatever you want to hear, whereas I have to drive/fly across the country to hear good stuff sometimes. . .  

Good luck picking your speakers though. . .

B

[Carlman]

Is the "online-only" search really just a product of laziness?  

I have to agree with Hantra's points here.  What happens if GR Research products start getting sold at traditional B&M hifi shops and they cost 10% more than they do now.  Would they no longer be an option?  I think Internet businesses would charge a lot less if they sold a lot more.  I'm sure online stores would like to sell more and make more.  How many businesses don't want to grow?  Onix is growing and may sell products in B&M stores within a year or so.  They may cost a little more, they may not.

As it stands, I think you get an excellent product online but, you can also get an excellent product from a store.  Do you get more for your money at one or the other?  That's debatable. However, it's not a debate when you find the one that sounds best to you.

If it's just laziness that excludes the B&M demo's, I understand.  But, if it's some other reason, that's like saying you liked U2 until they got big... or 'sold out'.  And now you'll only listen to music that hasn't got a record label deal.

[azryan]

If you've got time to build a kit, the GR Alphas will come in well below your $3K cap and pretty much better-to-stomp on the rest of your choices in most everyway.

I see your point about -"What happens if GR Research products start getting sold at traditional B&M hifi shops and they cost 10% more than they do now. Would they no longer be an option? I think Internet businesses would charge a lot less if they sold a lot more.-"

Danny sells kits mostly so he's mostly like a Parts Express type company selling you raw pars for exclusive speaker designs.

The Alphas in finished form would be at least $13K in a store and still kill many $20K+ speakers I'm sure we colud all name -who's raw parts cost is WELL BELOW the cost of the Alpha's kit.

10% is not even close to a store premium. And the BIG brand names are NOT giving you any kind of a deal at all just because they sell more speakers.

Look at the $2K tiny Martin Logan Mosaic that uses one neo 8 (like the Alphas), one neo damped out neo 3, cheap woofer and cheap cabinet, and no doubt cheap x-over.
This it probably $200 in parts cost tops for M-L.

If you can't build the Alpha cabinets you can get finished cabinets and the kit for ~$4K and it'll take you a day or so to put the two together.

Top quality x-over and dirt simple x-over.

I'm getting the modded Pannie myself, and I've been using the stock XR25 w/ my Alphas and it's a great advantage IMO to have a speaker that needs FAR less power than most. ~Ten times less power than some of the models mentioned even.

The line of woofers is similar to the Scan Speak 8545 but FAR lower dist. level (I've got Newform Research 630's and 645's w/ those Scan Speaks) and the line blends seamlessly w/ the line of neo panels broadband tweeters.

A dynamics monster with the Pannie. It's REALLY funny to see this tiny 'no, it's not a DVD player' Rec. powering these tall towers. And do it easily running full range.

Huge, grand soundstage and the sound doesn't change when standing up or sitting on the floor or whatever ear height your couch/chair puts you at.
You'd have to look at the RM/X to get that tall line source-ish type of soundstage from something else.

My wife and I find zero need for a center chan. for HT either so if that was going to be part of your budget you might factor that cost savings into the higher cost of the Alphas w/ finished cabinets?

Also it seems like you (and I) 'll be able to get the better Bi-amp Pannie version that covers the front and rear center channels but puts quality binding posts on front AND rear surround channels.
You won't need to bi-amp the Alphas though, but you could swap banana plugs to do it in under a minute.
You'll be fine with the 626's for surrounds.

Can't go wrong w/ the RM-30's. A great choice for sitting only though IMO.

The brand new Onix Ref. towers I heard in Vegas were outstanding too. I forget which Ref. model they were though?

Any of these are going to 'mosty' to 'very much' sound like the sound you send them which is the not bright/harsh, not warm/rich Pannie you're getting. Just clean and clear. Might be too neutral sounding/colorless for some people looking for a certain 'sound'?

I do agree that skipping store brands and their inflated prices and annoying salesmen is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 'Online' is a goldmine compared to the typical Hi-Fi shop IMO.

[Hantra]

Even an idiot could take high-priced parts and stuff them in a box.  It takes real talent, and experience to make a speaker that is special REGARDLESS of the parts cost.  Implementation and design are everything in the speaker business.

[Marbles]

Even an idiot could take high-priced parts and stuff them in a box.  It takes real talent, and experience to make a speaker that is special REGARDLESS of the parts cost.  Implementation and design are everything in the speaker business.

Just curious if you have heard some of the speakers that their manufacutrers have circles here?  If so which ones, and do you feel the manufacturers have no talent?

[rosconey]

everyone calm the fuck down
lets not get into a pissing match

[Carlman]

....lets not get into a pissing match

Agreed.  Back to finding a good loudspeaker for under 3,k.  I think AZRyan, Hantra, Marbles, and myself can agree that valid points have been made and do not need to discuss these points further here.  

However, if any of you wish to debate the cost to performance values in a new thread, feel free.... I'd recommend the Fight Club to start it.

[Marbles]

I would like to see Hantra's answers to my questions.

I think I was very civil in the way I asked them.

[jasonc]

Thank you all for your points most of which are I feel are valid.  I agree that I need to hear the speaker that's right for me.  My main reason for posting this type of question on this site is because I am lazy.   I also know that there are people on this board that have a lot more experience with different types of speakers than I do and I just want to hear opinions on different brands and what people are enjoying the most or have found the best for them.