[Raiderone]

I'm with the Pig.  I'm also a tube head.  My experience is that low powered SET sound is anemic with all but the most efficient Lowther fullrangers.  And you still need a sub.  With Fostex, solid state is fine and is better than with 2.5 watt SET.  I heard the Fostex with huge power Accuphase amps at the Fostex room at the CES and that was the best I've ever heard the Fostex sound.  My Fostex (168 Sigma old, 206esr, 208Es) always sounds better with 100 watts solid state than with 25 watt push pull tube.

I've been messing with audio for over 25 years, going passive, active, passive, active.  The quality of the attentuaton in a passive matters.  Passive alone, is not always better than active.  Active can actually "improve" the sound over a poor passive with wrong impedence matching with the amplifier.  Also, the euphonic coloration may suit one's taste better than the direct approach.  There rarely ever is one way of doing things.  It really depends on the specific application.

[Triode Pete]

No need to convince much less preach to me Pete I've got 2a3s and 300Bs. Also, all my SS and hybrid amps are single ended, zero global negative feedback just like my DHT SETs.

All I'm saying is that you CAN get good sound out of Hi-Eff and SS as others here have also experienced. I'm just not one to use "Best" loosely much less impose what I do consider "Best" on others.

I do have ears and I do listen. That was a cheap shot and you know it. Peace to you too.

"Never in a million years would you have a SET amp in either scenario." - Just one more thing. Get your history straight. Those NOS RCAs and WEs likely came from cinemas. Ben Hur, Gone with the Wind, Wizard of Oz WERE slamming happy viewers with SETS. SETS also powered Jazz club vocals from the 20s up until PP and later SS came into the picture.

Hey JackD201 --- sorry to ruffle your feathers. I agree you can good sound from Hi-Eff (& especially low efficiency) and SS... Everyone has a different perceptions & opinions on our great audio hobby... none wrong...

As far as the Captain Beefheart quote, it was purely "tongue & cheek", quoting a very eccentric songwriter & musician, who used to jam with Frank Zappa a lot... I had no intention to enflame, criticize, condemn or complain; you appear very sensitive & I apologize.

As far as your original quote, "I  hear good Hi-eff + Hi-power SS all the time. It's the staple in movie theaters and clubs everywhere in the world." I assume you are not "Hero" & cannot teleport back to the 1920's & 30's. I know my audio history...  My "Never in a million years" quote was referencing today (2010). I'd like to see one SET system you can find today in your global clubs or movie theatres... and I think the old giant Western Electric horns of the 1930's were a lot more efficient (at least easier to drive at 16 ohms) than today's movie theatre speakers...

I won't be posting in this circle any more since I rather not upset anyone with my $0.02...

"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is Fast & Bulbous, Got Me?"... Captain Beefheart

[JackD201]

No harm done Pete. No I'm no Hiro but my I think I am at least better looking 

I dunno about the states but over here seldom do clubs make use of off the rack PA stuff. They just cost too much to import. As a result speakers are custom built so there are several clubs (actually most) that use older JBL and Altec drivers with Alnico magnets and others that use semi-vintage 15" Fostex's in their cabs. No tubes but they do sound much better, at least to my ears, than the clubs I've been to over there and here that use Mac, Renkus Heinz, Turbosound, Meyer or worst of the worst JBL Eon series speakers. Same goes for movie theaters.

... and I think the old giant Western Electric horns of the 1930's were a lot more efficient (at least easier to drive at 16 ohms) than today's movie theatre speakers...

I'd be a certified sucker to take that bet. An organization of which I am a part, did have a free concert in 2007 however which used all SET amplification except for the bass bins which used Push Pull. The organizers wanted to go all tube but our production buddies couldn't get their hands on a tube board or tube active XOs. They did manage at least a tube mic pre for the featured vocalist. Did it sound good? Hell yeah. It was harrowing for the crew however. There was an abject lesson though. It's HARD work. Ease of maintenance, ease of use and cost savings on man hours eased those sets out of pro sound not quality per se as you undoubtedly know.

Like I said. You ain't got to preach to me and yes I know who Captain Beefheart is my didactic fellow tube lover. That's tongue in cheek too. Peace man

[Mister Pig]

Just wanted to clarify my post. The Rowland has never intended to be my final amp for the Sachiko speakers. This was an experiment to understand what could become of this kind of pairing.

The Rowland sounds great on a large range of music with these back loaded horns, but is not perfect. When an appropriate recording is used, the sound is fantastic. Yet sometimes I drag out what I believe is a good recording, and scratch my head after hearing it on this combo.

For what its worth, I suspect I will end up with a SET again, but its a matter of finding the right one.

However, from what I have experienced, I think HE speakers with SS amplification is capable of producing high quality sound. Of course some care has to go into the selection of the amp, but thats the way it is with all components. I think the Rowland is a good choice, and I suspect the early Classe and Mark Levinson electronics would fare well too.

Of course this is just the opinions of a barnyard animal. If you want a second opinion go as the cows. Don't talk to the chickens, as fowl cannot be counted on to tell the truth.

[doug s.]

i have a pair of decware modded fostex fe206e drivers in a pair of oris 150 horns.  while i have a few nice s/s amps i could try w/'em, i never have.  why?  cuz i get such good sound with a 5wpc single-ended pentode almarro a205a mkll.  the horns are actively crossed over at 300hz to 15" fostex woofers, installed in a pair of modded klipsch lascala bass-bin cabinets.  these are driven with s/s amps.  i actually did use a push-pull electrohome 8wpc amp on the bass-bins to good effect, (the bass bins are crossed to subs at 80hz, also powered with s/s amps), but i switched to a gainclone amp for the bass-bins - no sense in wasting tubes, imo, to drive speakers only playing 80hz-300hz.

some day, if i have too much time on my hands, i might try one of my gainclones or one of my electrocompaniet amps on the horns...

doug s.

[AmpDesigner333]

...and not all SET's and even SS (solid sand) amplifiers are made the same...including all pre-amps & Speakers as well...

I've found that the quality & design of the build is far more important than the quality of parts used...

For High Efficiency Speakers, it is a kind reminder that the First Watt (or first 100 milliwatts) are most important... for the majority of SS amps, this extremely low power region is definitely not their strong point...

My $0.02,
Pete

More regarding the first watt...  The DAC4800A and Cherry amps are very high power (1000W to 1200W total).  However, we paid special attention to the first watt.  For example THD+N is <0.01% at 1W and <0.015% even at 250mW.  This is partially due to the SNR being pretty close to 120dB (the N in THD+N).  Music is very transient in nature, and many people are shocked at how loud 1W really is, especially with high efficiency speakers.  Another factor to music is that the peaks are several orders of magnitude above the average level, demanding lots of power for faithful reproduction.  There was a recent post on AC about this explaining an experiment with peak versus average on the recording side.  The conclusion was astronomical numbers for the dynamic range requirement when reproducing natural sounds (but not music?).  Anyway, that's my $0.02!