[azhtnut]

Hello all,

Just found the VSA circle recently and I'm truelly grateful for all the fantastic posts in this circle.  Thanks one and all.

I am getting ready to upgrade my VR4-jr speakers to the VR4-MKIII and LCR15 to Scanspeak drivers in the next few weeks.   I am considering upgrading my Lexicon RV-8 AVR to separates and wanted opinions on whether the improvement would be worth the money spent. 

I am on a budget for separates and based on other threads in the Circle, I'm looking at used/demo models of the following:

McCormack DNA-500     $3,500  FR and FL
McCormack DNA-HT5     $2,500  C, side and rear surrounds
Conrad Johnson ET2      $2,500  Preamp

or

McIntosh MC402      $4,500   FR and FL     
McIntosh MC205      $4,000   C, side and rear surrounds
McIntosh MX130      $1,500   Preamp

Any thoughts or other considerations in this price range would be appreciated.

Marty

System
Lexicon RV-8 7.1 AVR
Oppo BDP-83SE Universal Bluray player
VSA VR4-jrs (soon to be VR4-MKIII)
VSA LCR15 Center
VSA VSX-M Side surrounds
VSA VR-1 Rear surrounds
PS Audio P500 Power conditioner
Sim2 C3X Lite DLP Projector

[es347]

Albert has mentioned that McCormack amps, although they are wonderful (I used to own the DNA 0.5 and RLD-1 preamp) don't match up particularly well with VSA speakers.  I have no idea why that is so but his comment obviously comes from first hand experience.  I own MAC electronics and there is great synergy with my VR5 Anniversaries but there are other amps out there that match up well with VSA speakers...you no doubt will hear about several.  Good luck with your upgrades.

[JackD201]

If you can chase down a 2nd hand Moon Titan, you'd be in for a good start. Other good candidates 2nd hand would be Levinson No.432 with a Proceed HPA-5.

I wouldn't touch the processor yet until such time that the industry has really settled on a connection format. All this HDMi mumbo jumbo is migraine inducing. 

[Delacroix]

Not about processors, but there's a lengthy thread here about amps various folks have found to work well with VSA:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=59450.0

[azhtnut]

Thanks for your responses.  I read all of the thread regarding the amps and had selected the McCormack's based on that.  I'm considering the Macs, but may stay with the Lexicon pending other room changes like room treatments or a new 1080p projector.

[McTwins]

Hi
Reason for choosing McIntosh. This is for MC402 amp.

TOTAL HARMONIC DISTORTION

0.005% max. at any level from 250mW to rated power output

INTERMODULATION DISTORTION

SMPTE 0.005% maximum if instantaneous peak output does not exceed twice the output rating

and it has lots of current to drive the VR4SRmkIII. Greater than 100 ampere/channel.

Just a thought

 

[azhtnut]

The MC402 is on my list, budget willing.  Never owned Mac products due to cost, but may go with a good used amp.

I am considering a pre-amp with HT bypass that would be connected to a 2 CH amp to the VR4-SRs.  I would continue to use the Lexicon for HT, but use the pre-amp/amp combo for 2 CH music.  Has anyone done that with VSA speakers with good success?  Any recommendations on pre-amps for this?

[The Dude]

I am getting ready to upgrade my VR4-jr speakers to the VR4-MKIII and LCR15 to Scanspeak drivers in the next few weeks.

Is there an official upgrade for the LCR15?  Is this something that can be done by sending the speaker to Albert?

[azhtnut]

Yes, there is a LCR-15 upgrade.  Here is Albert's reply to my question.  I think this sorely needed as the LCR-15 is acceptable, but middle of the pack as a Center HT speaker.

"The LCR-15 can be upgraded to the same level, with the Scanspeak drivers and internal wall damping layer added.  The LCR-15 mod elevates the clarity by at least 100% and is $700 for all parts and labor.  You will most likely enjoy this mod while watching movies, as the dialog clarity is simply amazing!"

[Alex_G]

Azhtnut,

I used Agilent’s 4284A LCR meter to measure VR-4JR impedance and it’s painfully low 2.3Ω from 60Hz all the way through 160Hz.  There are not that many amps out there which can deliver clean signal into 2Ω loads without producing quite a bit of intermodulation distortion when pushed hard at high volumes.
 
I’ve observed increased midrange clarity when playing music at fairly high level when I bi-amp’d VR-4jr’s… by avoiding the injection of the intrermod products created by the bass amp that is typically leaked into the mid-highs section with a single amp implementation at very high volumes.

[es347]

The VR4 SRs and VR5s are 6 ohm nominal or at least I thought they were.  Why are the 4 jrs so low? 

[ceedee]

Hey Marty,

2.3 is a bit to low, should be 6.

There might be something wrong, or at the speaker, or at the mesurement.

see also:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/equipment/1204/vonschweikertvr4jr.htm

regards,

Cor

[Alex_G]

Measurements don’t lie, especially when they’re made with one of the most accurate LCR meter’s in the world.  The 4284A (HP) Agilent LCR meter was calibrated 2 days prior to making these measurements.  I’ve collected tons of Impedance, Inductance and Capacitance data which I’ve stored in Excel file. 

Since I’m bi-amping VR-4jr, here’re some measurements of the bass section only:
3.9Ω @ 30Hz
5.0Ω @50Hz
2.3Ω @ 73Hz
5.2Ω @ 200Hz

The lower section is based on the 4Ω network, and the mid-upper section is based on 8Ω network. If you’re not planning to bi-amp VR-4jr, than the nominal (combination of bass and mid-high sections) impedance that a single amplifier would see is around 5.7Ω…

[Alex_G]

Just to clarify, when I state that I bi-amp the VR-4jr’s… I’ve a one amp feeding the bass section and the separate amp is feeding the mid-high section of the speaker.  Where both sections are completely separate electro-mechanical circuits and do not interact with each other in any way.

[azhtnut]

Ok,

I've started the component upgrading this weekend with the purchased of a Dealer Demo McIntosh MC-206 6 CH amp 200W.  Originally I plan to use 4 CH to bi-amp my VR4s and the other 2 CH as a bridge to the Center CH.  Later I plan to purchase a pair of MC-402 or MC-352s for bi-amping the VR4s and use the 4 CH from the MC-206 for side and rear surrounds.

In looking for a processor, I have an option of purchasing a HT pass through pre-amp that I'll connect to the MC-206 and use for 2 CH music separate of my Lexicon RV-8.  The McIntosh MC2200 or MC2300 are possibilities for this. 

I am also considering  the Cary 11A Cinema series processor to replace the Lexicon RV-8.  It has HDMI 1.3, all the recent HT codecs, and produces audiophile quality 2 CH sound.  I like also that it passes through video from my Bluray/DVD player without any extra processing.

Would combining this Cary piece with the McIntosh amps be a good match?  Anyone have experience matching these brands?  Or using Cary amps/pre-amps with the VSA speakers?

Thanks.

[McTwins]

Hi
McIntosh amp will handle the 2 ohm with ease.

Azhnut
I would go for McIntosh if it was up to me. You mean C2300 or C2200 preamp. Why would you go with tube preamp? It's difficult to say if Cary will mach or not, the only way for you is to try it out and lend it from your dealer. Lots of connection here.
Thanks

[azhtnut]

This is really a matter of budget and functionality.  The Cary 11A is $4,000 list and offers HDMI 1.3 and all recent HD audio formats.  I could go with the McIntosh MX-120, but it lists for $8,000 and doesn't offer HDMI or HD audio formats.  The MX-136 is $10,000 and appears to offer the same as the Cary piece. 

Unfortunately for personal schedule reasons, I can't justify an additional $6K for the MX-136.  The C2200 and C2300 were offered as pre-amps with HT bypass allowing me to keep the Lexicon for HT mode. 

I think your advice is good to audition the Cary with a McIntosh amp, if possible.  I wouldn't expect to audition the Cary, McIntosh, and VSAs altogether, but one never knows.