Australian REDBACK brand 8 inch twin cone drivers??

grantnsw · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 Apr 2010, 12:45 pm »

Zyg,

I forgot to ask please, could you post a front and back photo of your new C2002? Because I would like to send it to the NSW distribution centre to make sure that I receive the new driver, and not an old PA one. Thanks...

Hi Mr C.

zygadr · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 01:48 am »

All, it's still under the ''PA'' catagory and is the C2002 model.

It's only difference is the surround - it's paper, not concave foam.

When you order, have the sales rep take two out of the supply stock, open them up and check that they have PAPER surrounds and you will be o.k.
I think that the older stock version with the foam surround does not exist anymore.......but you never know.
That's why I went in personally to one of their branches and inpected the pair.

Now, used some chip board baffles after work yesterday and hacked out two holes, and drilled in a couple of screws here and there.
Baffles were 6.5 foot X 2.5 foot x 1/2 inch (sorry to the Aussies for the imperial measurements).

Well, they sound pretty good on baffles.....bass is there, but can be improved with side sections etc.
Overall, as said before, a cheap way to get a good sounding open baffle single driver up and running.

GOOD LUCK!

zygadr · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 02:01 am »

Further listening at very loud levels(percussion music)revealed a blurring of individual instruments and their separation within the performance as a whole.Things turned to a noisy mush if that makes sense?

I don't know if this is typical of twin cone drivers including the very expensive ones, or the fact that I was using open baffle which does not load the driver all that well?

Anyhow, at normal listening levels this speaker driver is very good indeed...........recommended.

grantnsw · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 Apr 2010, 01:28 pm »

Hi Zyg,

Thanks again for your review!

I know little, but I'm just trying to help... about them turning to distorted 'mush at high volume'...

your post # 15, long break-in period required? maybe run em in longer and see if they improve?

post # 21.. 30" wide baffle, ... is possibly too wide?

post # 19 Mr C, baffles > 24" wide will hurt imaging, hmm, maybe try 18 to 24"? dunno, just a thought

post # 22, re: 'mush' ...well Seas make an exxy big $ Exotic whizzer, but whizzer cones will always be problematic?

For $28 each I guess we can't expect audiophile, but hey, its in my budget! And may work OB with my Jaycar CW-2125!

Could some of that distortion be lost if they were crossed to a sub at say 150Hz or woofer at maybe 300?

Low frequencies are causing IMD in the whizzer?

If Altronics ever publish reliable SPL/Z graphs and T/S params, I might buy 2. But I don't have ARTA/LIMP
or testing set-up...

BTW, I hope you can find a glue solution for your NXT thread!

Grant

zygadr · « **Reply #24 on:** 27 Apr 2010, 04:38 am »

After some break in, these little wonders sound a lot better.

The problem I experienced previously was probably due to the fact that the baffles were thin flexible building material sheets(not chip board.........sorry, my bad

) I had lying around, not solid and heavy board like you're supposed to use

I think that that did not anchor the driver in loud passages and the subsequent excursions

Anyway, they are still a bargain, and they can only sound better when properly mounted

......we'll have to wait and see

Mr Content · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 Apr 2010, 06:26 am »

Quote from: zygadr on 27 Apr 2010, 04:38 am

.

The problem I experienced previously was probably due to the fact that the baffles were thin flexible building material sheets(not chip board.........sorry, my bad ) I had lying around, not solid and heavy board like you're supposed to use

After 100's of baffles, i believe that mass of the baffle is critical. I currently use a combo of substrates to get a 65mm thick baffle that is very heavy. I recommend this for everyone.

Mr C

zygadr · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 Apr 2010, 06:48 am »

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????................thought so...............

grantnsw · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 May 2010, 02:44 pm »

Oh Crikey...$28 vs $1000+

http://www.hasaudio.co.nz/seas-exotic-full-range-driver-p-415.html

full range paper cones will bleed your ears off? so I'm told.
better to buy a cheap whizzer then.

grantnsw · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 May 2010, 01:55 pm »

Hi Zyg,
I should clarify my last message!

What I meant to imply was that the Altronics will sound good compared to the Seas which is 36 times the price.
How can they justify $1022 for an 8" whizzer cone?

Even the TangBand W1808 is $185US:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-894

I read on DIY that small 3" paper cone FR drivers will " bleed your ears off ".

So cheers on your selection of driver, and thanks for the info! If they publish specs, I will buy 2.
thanks mate, Grant

zygadr · « **Reply #29 on:** 6 May 2010, 07:56 am »

Grant..............for a second there I thought you wrere taking the piss

I've heard a lot of twin cone 8 inch drivers over the years including Lowthers, vintage Magnavox, Rolas and even a non whizzer Visaton B200.

These new cheapies can rock with the best of them..............in some areas even better?

The price asked for some of these twin cone jobbies is without doubt ''RIDICULOUS''

There was one driver that was hand made by BE YAMAMURA .........remember him?........Yamamura Churchill and those huge horns run by Be's 6 inch twin cone full ranger.
The driver and his products in general were outrageously expensive..................but I would have loved to hear that driver

It was made from some special formulated paper of his and had a spiderless suspension............the spider was replaced by two or three thin carbon fiber ''rings''.It was also ''surroundless''.........WEIRD!

I believe that in Japan, there are driver building clubs that roll their own cones and all!.............now that would be fun!

zygadr · « **Reply #30 on:** 9 May 2010, 03:32 am »

Bought 2 solid polystyrene eggs (egg shaped/sized) from a crafts store yesterday for $1.40 a pair.
Was hoping that they would be near to the correct size for the Redback driver's whizzer cone and to use it as a phasing stabiliser a' la Lowther's PM4A

Surprisingly, the size is perfect and when held in the inside of the whizzer cone with only white noise playing, the upper high frequencies are noticeably improved

...............this is really becoming great fun for such a cheap bargain driver!

Next step will be to cut out the centre dust cap and use a flat bottom bolt attached to the foam stabiliser and mount it in the centre of the pole peice.

The real thing..................man, wish I could afford a pair

zygadr · « **Reply #31 on:** 17 May 2010, 04:51 am »

Here's an important observation for those who don't already know this.

This driver, used on a current source amplifier such as a valve amp or single ended zen mosfet amp, sounds incredible!

I then tried it with a ''GAINCLONE'' chip amp and the bass and highs dissappeared!!!

............the same thing happened with a high end home theatre receiver.

My feeling is that many have disregarded twin cone speakers as low bandwidth, low-fi rubbish due to the fact that they were tried on your common solid state voltage amplifier.

A good read is on the PASS DIY SITE under ''articles and projects'' (http://www.passdiy.com) on :CURRENT SOURCE AMPLIFIERS AND SENSITIVE/FULL RANGE DRIVERS''

Hearing is believing!

versus rider · « **Reply #32 on:** 18 May 2010, 08:15 pm »

these drivers look remarkedly like the drivers I am using in my open baffles. I bought mine on ebay uk and they were £55 a pair. I have talked with the seller on several occasions and all he has said is that they are 10w and 97db and that he purchased all the drivers available in the UK, I assume it was in the UK anyway. They may be the same drivers and he didn't want me to find where to buy them cheaper. If anyone is interested I will post pictures of front and back.

zygadr · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 May 2010, 12:55 am »

Please do versus!.........................I'll probably take a photo of one of my drivers as well

versus rider · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 May 2010, 05:54 am »

versus rider · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 May 2010, 05:55 am »

zygadr · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 May 2010, 12:11 am »

Thanks versus.

Yes that looks like the cheaper driver of the two available here in Australia.

It should sound pretty good though?........................how do you find it in efficiency and tonal balance?

versus rider · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 May 2010, 05:43 am »

I run them with 2A3 set mono's at 3.5 w they are plenty loud enough in my 5m x 5m room. They are not far short of the lowther EX3's I was using in a fidelio cabinet with better bass. Very flat response and very little of the shouty peaks I got with lowthers and thats straight out of the box. Unlike the lowthers that still were bass light after 5 months continuous use. I may try these redback drivers as I am looking for a driver to use in open baffle when I start to sell them commercially after very favourable comments from those that have heard them.

versus rider · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 May 2010, 06:08 am »

Quote from: zygadr on 20 Apr 2010, 06:35 am

I can't wait to get these things on some large baffles!

Further listening last night showed that there is no lack of high frequencies which has commonly been the problem in previously tried ''cheap'' 8 inch twin cone drivers.

Besides the temporary lack of bass without some sort of baffle or box, the rest of the spectrum is quite impressive indeed:

Cymbals are wonderfully natural and ''present''

What the hell is the true sensitivity of these things? ..........sounds very loud with only a few watts

Vocals superb

Micro dynamics such as fingers rubbing against or plucking strings is a a joy

General sound is very fast and dynamic.

There does not seem to be any 'nasal'' tonality or any offensive ''shout'' either (will have to see when the bass is recovered)

Of course that seamless ''cohesion'' makes itself boldly evident(solo piano now sounds like a ''PIANO''! )..................it's sickening really as I thought my huge two way simple crossover horn speakers were perfectly integrated.............WRONG!!!!

Yes, the longer they play, the better they're sounding.............I hate to admit it, but,........ ''break in'' is a fact,...... not an audiophile myth

There will be further updates when I get a couple of large particle board sheets for experimental purposes for an open baffle concept.
For now, anybody living in Australia can pick up a full range bargain from what I am hearing............

I'm not suggesting that Lowther eat their heart out, but having heard Lowthers, Fostex and some sort of Italian made full ranger(can't recall the make ) in the past, this driver can rock with the best of them

what you have described is what I get from my unknown drivers in open baffle.

zygadr · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 May 2010, 12:37 am »

versus, I'm glad to hear that your drivers are comparable to much more esoteric and expensive types.
I have noticed this too in the past and it begins to question the more exotic type's value for money

..................but that's just my opinion.

I'll post a photo this weekend of the larger magnet Altronics drivers.

They are surprisingly good and bloody frightening in realism with percussion instruments such as wooden blocks, gongs, bells, triangles, cymbals. Only the deepest low note bangs at high listening levels are problematic in open baffles beacause they have no rear loading of course.

Their sensitivity is no where near 97db and at 90db specified,I'm still not certain of the actual true sensitivity rating.............who knows?
The sound they produce with a low power single ended transconductance amp makes up for any losses elsewhere

The magic of a full range driver is a real phenomenon............wish I had woken up to this earlier(it was allways at the back of my mind and I chose to ignore it, going to big three way horns instead

).

I will also buy a couple of the smaller magnet versions that look identical to yours and see how they go