[Bigload]

I just ordered my first set of Salk speakers which are my first set of non mass produced speakers as well.  I also just got a decent (by my standards) SACD player that will be my main source.  So I am sure not coming in here knowing too much about audio as you will see.  So please forgive me if I ask something silly!  I am just trying to class up my 2 channel listening a little and need some help.

I now want to get a decent amp and preamp.  I have read quite a bit here and it seems most guys prefer AVA.  It seems second preference is Parasound.  And it seems Emotiva is OK for those wanting to spend the absolute least and still have something that works decent.  At least that is what I think I am getting from reading the threads.  I have been on all of these mfg's web sights trying to look at individual models and here is what I am coming up with... (more questions than answers)

1.  AVA-  Preamp-  Either an Insight EC or SL with remote for $1200 to $1350-  IS there a reason to choses one over the other?
2.  AVA amp-  Insight 260-  $1400-  Is that model a good match for the Salk ST's?
3.  AVA integrated SL-  $1400-  Is that a good way to go?  Sure would save a few bucks!  Is that a good unit to use with the ST's?  This really attractive because of the space and cost.  What about the performance?  Is there a down side to an integrated?
4.  Parasound-  A23 and P3 could be purchased for about $1800 total.  Parasound was not the most frequently recommended, and they are not the lowest cost.  I don't know what to think about them.
5.  Emotiva-  Looked at the UPA-1 mono block amps and the USP-1 preamp.  Could get both mono block amps and the preamp for about $1000.  I don't know what to think on this either.  They get good reviews.  Can they be that inexpensive and still do the ST's justice?

Unless I get some wise counsel otherwise, I really lean towards the AVA integrated.  Their web sight says they use this unit in their shop to drive some HT3's.  Rated for 90w/ch into 8ohms.  Wonder what is it into 4 ohms?   Does that even matter?  And on the Emotiva...that seems like a killer deal for two 350 watt mono amps and preamp.  Maybe I should order both and audition them and then send one back?  I am confused as heck about this.  Are these things all so close that only a seasoned and discerning audio expert hears the difference??

Then... what about cables?  I was shocked when I started looking at that!!  I saw some interconnects for $9000!  How much should you spend to get a good interconnect cable pair 1M long?  $50-$150-More.

So in summary, after all of that rambling, two questions......
1.  AVA integrated for $1400 or Emotiva mono blocks and preamp for $1000?
2.  How much should I spend to get decent interconnects?

Thank you for suffering a fool today!

[WGH]

1.  AVA-  Preamp-  Either an Insight EC or SL with remote for $1200 to $1350-  IS there a reason to choses one over the other?

I chose the Insight EC with tone adjustment for my system because many early rock albums have anemic bass.

What Salk speakers did you order? The size of your room and how loud you play your music will determine how big an amp you need.

The Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low Capacitance Audio Cable is a solid choice for AVA equipment.

Wayne

[evan1]

I chose the Insight EC with tone adjustment for my system because many early rock albums have anemic bass.

What Salk speakers did you order? The size of your room and how loud you play your music will determine how big an amp you need.

The Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low Capacitance Audio Cable is a solid choice for AVA equipment.

Wayne

Wayne 

Number 2 


AVA-  Preamp-  Either an Insight EC or SL with remote for $1200 to $1350-  IS there a reason to choses one over the other?
2.  AVA amp-  Insight 260-  $1400-  Is that model a good match for the Salk ST's?
3.  AVA integrated SL-  $1400-  Is that a good way to go?  Sure would save a few bucks!  Is that a good unit to use with the ST's?  This really attractive because of the space and cost.  What about the performance?  Is there a down side to an integrated?
4.  Parasound-  A23 and P3 could be purchased for about $1800 total.  Parasound was not the most frequently recommended, and they are not the lowest cost.  I don't know what to think about them.
5.  Emotiva-  Looked at the UPA-1 mono block amps and the USP-1 preamp.  Could get both mono block amps and the preamp for about $1000.  I don't know what to think on this either.  They get good reviews.  Can they be that inexpensive and still do the ST's justice?

[Bigload]

I ordered the SongTower QWT towers with the standard tweeters.
My room is about 18X18 with high open ceiling to an upstairs balcony.
Thanks.

[Art_Chicago]

I just ordered my first set of Salk speakers which are my first set of non mass produced speakers as well.  I also just got a decent (by my standards) SACD player that will be my main source.  So I am sure not coming in here knowing too much about audio as you will see.  So please forgive me if I ask something silly!  I am just trying to class up my 2 channel listening a little and need some help.

I now want to get a decent amp and preamp.  I have read quite a bit here and it seems most guys prefer AVA.  It seems second preference is Parasound.  And it seems Emotiva is OK for those wanting to spend the absolute least and still have something that works decent.  At least that is what I think I am getting from reading the threads.  I have been on all of these mfg's web sights trying to look at individual models and here is what I am coming up with... (more questions than answers)

1.  AVA-  Preamp-  Either an Insight EC or SL with remote for $1200 to $1350-  IS there a reason to choses one over the other?
2.  AVA amp-  Insight 260-  $1400-  Is that model a good match for the Salk ST's?
3.  AVA integrated SL-  $1400-  Is that a good way to go?  Sure would save a few bucks!  Is that a good unit to use with the ST's?  This really attractive because of the space and cost.  What about the performance?  Is there a down side to an integrated?
4.  Parasound-  A23 and P3 could be purchased for about $1800 total.  Parasound was not the most frequently recommended, and they are not the lowest cost.  I don't know what to think about them.
5.  Emotiva-  Looked at the UPA-1 mono block amps and the USP-1 preamp.  Could get both mono block amps and the preamp for about $1000.  I don't know what to think on this either.  They get good reviews.  Can they be that inexpensive and still do the ST's justice?

Unless I get some wise counsel otherwise, I really lean towards the AVA integrated.  Their web sight says they use this unit in their shop to drive some HT3's.  Rated for 90w/ch into 8ohms.  Wonder what is it into 4 ohms?   Does that even matter?  And on the Emotiva...that seems like a killer deal for two 350 watt mono amps and preamp.  Maybe I should order both and audition them and then send one back?  I am confused as heck about this.  Are these things all so close that only a seasoned and discerning audio expert hears the difference??

Then... what about cables?  I was shocked when I started looking at that!!  I saw some interconnects for $9000!  How much should you spend to get a good interconnect cable pair 1M long?  $50-$150-More.

So in summary, after all of that rambling, two questions......
1.  AVA integrated for $1400 or Emotiva mono blocks and preamp for $1000?
2.  How much should I spend to get decent interconnects?

Thank you for suffering a fool today!

According to Frank, all you need is Insight 240 for your ST, but 260 is great for sure. You can also get the new AVAstar preamp, that is supposed to be awesome and get Insight 240. Your total will be in the same 3K range. I thought of AVA integrated, but the separate ones will give you much more flexibilty.
Cannot comment on the other brands you mentioned.

[evan1]

I originally had an Emotiva XPA2 paired with my ST's and an Odyssey Candela. The combo was very nice but I wanted an even smoother sound and ended up selling the Emotiva after a friend lent me 2 of his Butler TDB2250's which is a tube hybrid amp. All the guts of solid state and smoothness of tubes.

Before -Who Is that guy...shows up everywhere



After

[Don_S]

Who is that guy?   An ex-supermodel who has fallen on hard times.  Now he will pose with any speaker, anywhere for a beer. 

[evan1]

Who is that guy?   An ex-supermodel who has fallen on hard times.  Now he will pose with any speaker, anywhere for a beer. 

Sure it was a supermodel ?




ok lets get back on track here

[Bigload]

Is it a mistake or otherwise ill advised to mix and match by putting an AVA 240 amp with an Emotiva USP-1 Preamp?

And it seems nobody is embracing the AVA Insight Integrated as a good solution??

[floresjc]

I bought a used, "pimped out" version of Frank's integrated early last summer. Its a good piece of equipment and would drive SongTowers pretty well. However, I turned mine in to Frank and got the Insight EC and a double 440 (I was going to drive HT3's but I ended up with HT2-TL's). I also have a double 240 and double 240/3 attached to my SongTower home theater. I also have that Parasound 2100 you mention. I only mention these to give you a background for my comments here about the different gear you mentioned.

Quite honestly, in a strictly 2-channel setting with SongTowers, I think a double 240 is perfectly fine. I listen to mine at good levels and the amps keep up no problem. Some guys may want more headroom or power, and so you could move up that chain as you feel appropriate, but I wouldn't discount his best value amp considering how much current it moves with the double die upgrade.

I also think that if your budget allows, I would move past the Parasound preamp into an AVA line to match your amp. I have the Insight EC and its wonderful. If you don't need/want the extra buttons/functions, the SL would be exactly the same sonically. The Parasound 2100 is a great piece of gear in a home theater environment, it has pass through, 2 sub connections, and an mp3 input jack. It also sounds very good and is cheaper than the AVA stuff. I prefer the Insight EC myself, but if MP3 jack was a need or lower cost was a limiting factor then the Parasound would be perfectly fine.

Of the two options you mentioned I would probably go with the AVA Integrated. I love separates, but the Integrated has two main advantages over the Emotiva kit.

1. Its an AVA piece of gear and the build quality, customer service and sonic quality will be 2nd to none in its price range.

2. AVA gear will last a *long* time and selling his gear on the used market is not particularly hard if you ever want to move up.

I looked at Emotiva long and hard before I went with AVA, the low prices and deals were almost too good to pass up. But in the end, I'm extremely happy with the AVA stuff. It really came down the personal service and record of quality. I think overall, Frank wins on both counts, although Emotiva does have its own following, but there are quite a few complaints out there and they still strike me as a relatively big box kind of place.

If it were me, I would skip the $1400 or $1500, get a double 240 and an Insight SL for $2000. It gives you the most upgrade flexibility, quite a bit of power for SongTowers, and AVA quality/longevity. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't swap anything out for 10 years unless you really had an urge to play at ear bleeding levels.

As far as cables, that Blue Jeans recommendation is on par. Best cable out there for the money. Although if you need a bunch of them (I was hooking up a 5.1 system and 2 channel system all at once) it gets expensive. So I also have a bunch of Tartan cable interconnects (same company cheaper, precut line to compete with Monoprice). No complaints whatsoever, great cables whether you buy the lowpriced line or the the top of the line.

www.bluejeanscable.com
www.tartancable.com

As far as "are the differences hearable in amps/preamps/cables". Depends on the person. My dad listens to computer speakers and 128kbps mp3's and he generally couldn't tell you the difference between any of them. He would probably notice a pre-amp switch out. I can notice differences in the preamp, and maybe between a really crappy amp and a good one, but not so much. I just don't believe the amps change the sound a whole lot, given that two are putting out the same power levels. And cables, no difference at all. I make sure to spend a bit to get good quality cables, but I don't go overboard.

And your last point, its not a mistake, but maybe ill-advised. It would probably have a good sound, and many people could be happy with it. I like the synergy of keeping the brands the same though, and Frank makes one of the best.

[WGH]

I also just got a decent (by my standards) SACD player that will be my main source. 

Here is something else to think about: usually a stand alone DAC will give you better sound than the line out of a CD or SACD player. AVA has combined the Insight SL preamplifier with the excellent Vision DAC, here is the announcement:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75324.0

Wayne

[floresjc]

Is it a mistake or otherwise ill advised to mix and match by putting an AVA 240 amp with an Emotiva USP-1 Preamp?

And it seems nobody is embracing the AVA Insight Integrated as a good solution??

The only real problem with the Integrated is that its Integrated. If you want to move up you have to sell it and get 2 pieces to replace it. Whereas with a pre-amp and an amp, if you want the newest of either, you sell the one, and replace just it. Amps last a really long time, so if you go out and get a great one, that leaves you free to replace preamps as the technology matures and keep your amp investment.

I think most people are skeptical that those in high end audio will keep an integrated for a long period of time because they will get the itch to move up. So eventually you'd run into that conundrum of buying 2 pieces later when you coulda just got them straight out. My Integrated didn't last a week before I moved up, but it had nothing to do with the quality of the gear.

[sfox7076]

I agree with Eric.  I would also look used.  If you don't mind buying used, you can get one step up.  I got an AVA Ultra 550 amp and a T8 small chassis w/phono for under $1700.  That would be my choice.  The 550 is amazing.  I have a regular 240/3 for the center and rears, but that is because I am more concerned about two channel audio.  I don't have big surround speakers (just songcenter/songsurrounds), so I didn't try to assemble Ultra 550s all around.  If you are only going two channel, you can try to find an Ultimate 70 and the T8 small chassis or the like.

Shawn

[floresjc]

Used is a perfectly good path. I bought the Integrated used, the PS 2100 open box, and my Outlaw 990 processor used from sfox7076 used as well. All were great values and worked fine. Audiogon.com is where I lived all summer. I also bought HT3's used, which FedEx took no time in destroying, but otherwise, the used market is very good in my experience.

[Bigload]

Lots of great advise!  Thanks for sharing your experience.

[oneinthepipe]

I recommend the Vision DAC/Preamp combo with the UltraValve.    You can't get better sound for 3300.00, IMO.  If the UltraValve is not your cup of tea, the Insight Double 240 or Insight Double 260 would be good choices, although I like the T8 preamp better with the solid state amp.  Don't overlook the DAC.  Garbage in, garbage out.

[Bigload]

Like I said at the beginning.... I am way down at the bottom of the learning curve here.  So...
Help me understand the DAC thing.  I know that is a digital to analog converter.  And I know everything has to be ultimately converted to analog before it can be output to speakers.  I think I know that iPods have really bad DACs and AVRs have better DACs and high end stand alone DACs are probably the best (I think).  So does that mean that all preamps also have a built in DAC like an AVR?  And to do really good, you should get an external DAC, even if you get a nice AVA preamp?  OR is this unit you recommended simply an AVA preamp with an even better high end built in DAC?  Again, sorry for the first grade questions!

[Bigload]

I just found the link in the above post.  I got it now.  Thanks!!

Now I think I understand that if you use a regular preamp, you must use analog inputs.  So I guess that means your CD/SACD player has to use its own DAC before the analog signal gets sent.  If you get this new hybrid preamp, you can send a digital signal from your source and the hybrid preamp converts it, with the advantage being the hybrid preamp has a much better DAC than my SACD player (Marantz SA8003) has.  Right??

[Art_Chicago]

only a few models of 2-channel preamps have built-in DACs. If your source is a computer or ipod, a DAC is a must. Some hi-end CD players have good DACs, but you will be fine with any DVD player equipped with digital audio out (toslink or coax) and a DAC either separate or built-in in your (AVA) preamp! Just my 0.02.

[Bigload]

If I just got the Insight SL preamp and the Insight 240/2, and plugged my SACD player into my preamp using the analog in/outs would I be giving up something significant by not having the hybrid premap with the better integrated DAC?  AND...when I plug my iPod into the USB plug on my SACD player, is the SACD player's DAC working or is it the iPod DAC?  Thanks again.  This is really helpful to me!!