[TheChairGuy]

Regarding Consumer reports, my opinion is less than positive and I would never rely on their "analysis" for a car purchase.  To be fair, I would never rely on them for an audio purchase either.  Do you get your tips on which audio gear to buy from Consumer Reports?

It's never the sole decision-maker for me....but, it is helpful to read the experiences of tens of thousands that have filled out the questionnaires and read their driving reports. Consumer Reports is a non-profit organization that exists only thru the largess of their subscriber base. It keeps them largely agnostic as to favorite makes.

Helpful, too, are the Editor's Review over at Edmunds.com and the reviews by the owners themselves.  All of these help to pick up 'trends' for each car in their aggregate.

If I used it as my only deciding factor - I'd have never bought my current SAAB 9-3. Nor a VPI Classic turntable

John

[jackman]

Ford and GM are not on equal footing with Toyota in terms of reliability.  You assume this is the case.  

At least their pedals don't stick!   

Also, the last time I checked, Ford doesn't manufacture or design tires.  If this has changed, please let me know.  This thread has run its course.  Besides, I thougth we were talking about whether the criticism of Toyota was warranted.  I say that Toyota deserves their fair share of the blame for designing and using millions of dangerous pedals in their cars.  They will get through this and be fine. 

[jules]

Does anyone around here actually know what the real mechanical problem with Toyotas were and what the actual fix is?

Yes Frank, knowing the nature of the problem sort of intrigues me too.

Thanks for the link Jackman but even though I stared at it for some time I still can't figure out what's going on. It seems that by inserting a "precision cut steel reinforcement plate" [read stamped sheetmetal spacer  ], two sets of opposing serrated teeth are slightly re-aligned so they can't jam between each other [though they actually look as though they were designed to mesh or maybe jam in the first place].

Anyone else care to offer an explanation that doesn't somehow mysteriously have a link with obesity?

jules

[cujobob]

At least their pedals don't stick!   

Also, the last time I checked, Ford doesn't manufacture or design tires.  If this has changed, please let me know.  This thread has run its course.  Besides, I thougth we were talking about whether the criticism of Toyota was warranted.  I say that Toyota deserves their fair share of the blame for designing and using millions of dangerous pedals in their cars.  They will get through this and be fine.

The people being hurt in accidents don't care which company designed or manufactured the flaw...they care about where they got the flawed product from.  You are already aware of this which is why you worded your post as you did.  You're a Homer...it is what it is.  I'm pro-value.  I like whatever I buy to work and last a while.  You don't feel the same and that's fine.  Doesn't Toyota assemble more of it's product in the U.S., anyways?  You're on the wrong side 

[jackman]

The people being hurt in accidents don't care which company designed or manufactured the flaw...they care about where they got the flawed product from.   You are already aware of this which is why you worded your post as you did.  You're a Homer...it is what it is.  I'm pro-value.  I like whatever I buy to work and last a while.  You don't feel the same and that's fine.  Doesn't Toyota assemble more of it's product in the U.S., anyways?  You're on the wrong side 

Dude, I hope you are joking because you may need to get some remedial reading help.  I said in my earlier post that I don't even own an American car.  To call me a homer is a joke.  You brought up some ridiculous example about tires to make a point about Ford quality and I responded.

I agree with you on one point.  The people who are being hurt in accidents (for example the people hurt or killed as a result of faulty gas pedals) don't care about who designed the pedal...however, the people who are in the market for a new car may care.  In fact, they DO care and several are choosing not to buy Toyota.   

Toyota deserves all the heat they are getting over this one.  They may not get it from biased fanboys like yourself but objective people (me), and those who vote with their pocketbooks are having second thoughs about Toyota, as a result of this defect.  Their sales are taking a hit bigtime. 

Call me a homer all you wish, I believe US auto manufacturers (I don't include Chrysler in this group because they suck) closed the gap and offer a better value than asian auto manufacturers.  I also feel that if Ford or GM experienced a massive recall on this scale, the Toyota/Honda fanboys would be laughing and poking fun at the US mfg's and their inability to make a quality product.  You just can't take it when the shoe is on the other foot. Just make sure that foot isn't resting on the stuck accelerator pedal of your Toyota as it careens through an intersection at 100 mph! Woooooooo.....   


Cheers,

J

[jackman]

If I used it as my only deciding factor - I'd have never bought my current SAAB 9-3. Nor a VPI Classic turntable

John

20 years of Consumer Reports and you still bought a Saab?  I don't have the heart to comment further.     Oh, what's wrong with VPI Classic turntables?  I thought they were good, did I miss something?   

[Bob in St. Louis]

Please remember the Explorer rollovers a few years back.

Blame a Japanese manufacturer called Bridgestone/Firestone for that.
Get your facts straight before you point your finger.

[jackman]

Blame a Japanese manufacturer called Bridgestone/Firestone for that.
Get your facts straight before you point your finger.

Snap!  Hey, this is the NEW Audiocircle.  The one where BFSL and J'man are on the same side.  I never thought I'd live to see the day.

Cujo, drive carefully! 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Yea, that's cool and all dude..... But I still don't like you.
I tend to hold a grudge until I've been proven wrong, or the "giving party" has deemed themselves worthy of my friendship.
You have done neither.
You've done your best to put my dick in the dirt on multiple forums. Job well done.
Please don't talk to me, or quote me again. Please pretend I don't exist. 
Thank you very much.

Bob

[jackman]

Yea, that's cool and all dude..... But I still don't like you.
I tend to hold a grudge until I've been proven wrong, or the "giving party" has deemed themselves worthy of my friendship.
You have done neither.
You've done your best to put my dick in the dirt on multiple forums. Job well done.
Please don't talk to me, or quote me again. Please pretend I don't exist. 
Thank you very much.

Bob

No problemo sparky.  You sound like you need to just chill, maybe go have a cigarette.   

For the record, all of my comments towards you were well deserved and life will go on just fine without your friendship.  If my comments had any influence on you deciding to no longer act as moderator of the Pub (formerly Sports Bar), then I consider it the best contribution anyone could ever make to this site.   

All the best,

J

[JeffB]

This article is interesting.
It pretty much says that the pedal is not the problem, and apparently Toyota does not know the real cause.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,4401302.story

I believe the congressional investigation into this is going to get interesting.

There is also another acceleration problem with the 2010 Prius.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0

[Bob in St. Louis]

Good to know that despite you new facade, the 'ol jackman I know so very well hasn't changed a bit.

Bob

[cujobob]

My point was that no matter who designed or manufactured a particular component, it is the company using/selling it that will be held accountable...which is why Ford deserved to be accountable with the tire issue and Toyota should be held accountable the same.  You disagreed on the Ford issue....despite agreeing with me that Toyota should be held accountable for using the pedal.    That...doesn't...make....sense.

You're a "Homer" because you put people who buy Japanese automobiles in the same group.  I don't care that it's Japanese, actually, I care that they work better for longer....as do others who buy from the company(s).

I have a million reasons to buy American...I get a nice discount for buying one.  This is part of the reason why they have an advantage with the economy down...lots of people get a discount through family.

[bpape]

I think the point is that Toyota designed the assembly and had someone else build it.  Ford did not design the tires.

Bryan

[jackman]

Good to know that despite you new facade, the 'ol jackman I know so very well hasn't changed a bit.

Bob

Thank you Bob for your kind words.     I wish you all the best in your audio endeavors, and non-audio endeavors for that matter.  Don't be a stranger. 

Cheers,

J

[jackman]

I think the point is that Toyota designed the assembly and had someone else build it.  Ford did not design the tires.

Bryan

What he said! And what my good friend Bob from St. Louis said also.  Ford is not a tire company.  No? 

[cujobob]

Even if Toyota had nothing to do with the design of it, they still used it and would be held accountable.  Just like what happened in the Ford-Tire incident.  Apple had failing capacitors in its PSUs a few years back (IMac G5 models) and issued a recall.  Didn't really tarnish it's image of building high-quality reliable devices because it wasn't normally associated with such problems.

Who built what specifically is somewhat irrelevant as I'm sure it was not designed to have this occur.

If they had a history of huge recalls, owners would be more concerned.  Man, but if they don't find out the exact problem soon...that'd really be a fiasco.  Like a deadly version of the XBox360....they announced 'fixes' that didn't actually solve the problem.

[baldrick]

What he said! And what my good friend Bob from St. Louis said also.  Ford is not a tire company.  No? 

Ford can't be totally absolved in that particular situation.  Early in the Explorer's life Ford specified a 17 psi tire pressure to compensate for excessive noise and harshness while underway.  A 4000 pound car on 17 psi or tires is an accident waiting to happen.

[jackman]

Ford can't be totally absolved in that particular situation.  Early in the Explorer's life Ford specified a 17 psi tire pressure to compensate for excessive noise and harshness while underway.  A 4000 pound car on 17 psi or tires is an accident waiting to happen.

I'm sorry but I can't comment on this until I check with good friend and my automobile guru.  His identity is shrouded in secrecy but he resides in a midwest town, and is an expert on all things auto.  17 psi sounds a bit light for a 4000 lbs vehicle.  You sure about that?

[JerryM]

Has anyone here been affected? How?

Not me personally, but I am keenly aware of some folks who have been, and some other folks who are about to be.

Two of the most popular rental cars in the United States are Corolla and Camry. Newer models, of course. The insurance industry, via their carriers and brokers, have advised the rental car industry to cease rentals of all affected models.

The average business traveler is figuring out what this all means in real time.

The insurance companies that write Business Interuption policies are going to find out what it all means in real dollars and cents. Soon.

It'll be interesting to see how this all turns out. 

Have fun,
Jerry