Verita

Rick Craig · « **on:** 1 Feb 2010, 04:37 pm »

Final crossover tweaking this week. 7" 2-way with the Scan-Speak 7" aluminum cone Illuminator woofer and RAAL 70-20XR ribbon tweeter.

chrismercurio · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Feb 2010, 09:44 pm »

When you finish...I am curious to know the subjective difference in sound between the paper coned and aluminum coned Illuminator.

Best,

Rick Craig · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 01:42 am »

Quote from: chrismercurio on 1 Feb 2010, 09:44 pm

When you finish...I am curious to know the subjective difference in sound between the paper coned and aluminum coned Illuminator.

Best,

This is probably as close as you'll ever get to truly comparing cone materials. The motor is the same and the suspensions are nearly identical (possibly the same as well). I tend to favor stiffer cone materials like aluminum, magnesium, and ceramic because of the upper bass / lower mid resolution. They also are much more immune to the edge resonance / phase cancellation that most softer cones have.

The upper end response is of course much more difficult to deal with and that's true here as well. But I enjoy a challenge.

c_note · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 03:47 pm »

Interesting, I had expected you to use the aluminum illuminator in a 3-way set-up, not a 2-way by virtue of the top end response. I was thinking more of an Esatto variant, with the 7" aluminum illuminator, the 2" accuton, and a RAAL tweeter--at reasonable volume levels, that would be pretty much state-of-the art from 50 hz up to beyond 20 khz. Relatedly, you've been introducing lots of 2-way monitors lately...any plans for new 3 or 3 1/2 way systems?

Rick Craig · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 04:41 pm »

Quote from: c_note on 2 Feb 2010, 03:47 pm

Interesting, I had expected you to use the aluminum illuminator in a 3-way set-up, not a 2-way by virtue of the top end response. I was thinking more of an Esatto variant, with the 7" aluminum illuminator, the 2" accuton, and a RAAL tweeter--at reasonable volume levels, that would be pretty much state-of-the art from 50 hz up to beyond 20 khz. Relatedly, you've been introducing lots of 2-way monitors lately...any plans for new 3 or 3 1/2 way systems?

It can be used in a 2-way as long as you pay attention to the details in the crossover. Actually I have proposed the same 3-way to a customer and with a matching center channel.

No 3.5-ways for me because they have some specific problems that make a 3-way or 4-way a much better choice. I do have some ideas for a new 3-way, possibly with a dipole mid option.

c_note · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 05:12 pm »

Glad to see great minds think alike!

Any plans to utilize the new Scan-speak beryllium tweeter? It's insanely expensive, but I suspect its SOTA as well. I think the Air Circ is an excellent tweeter, so I'd be curious how much further Scan-speak could take a dome tweeter. Given your preference for stiffer cones, I would think this driver would be a natural for you!

chrismercurio · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Feb 2010, 05:49 pm »

c_note,

The new Be tweeter was recently tested by both Voice Coil and some of the gentleman over at HTGuide. I don't know if you have access to issues of Voice Coil, but a quick search over at HTGuide can show you some the empirical information regarding the new tweeter. A few companies have it in very expensive newly released commercially available loudspeakers.

Regards,

Chris

Rick Craig · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Feb 2010, 02:30 am »

Quote from: c_note on 2 Feb 2010, 05:12 pm

Glad to see great minds think alike!

Any plans to utilize the new Scan-speak beryllium tweeter? It's insanely expensive, but I suspect its SOTA as well. I think the Air Circ is an excellent tweeter, so I'd be curious how much further Scan-speak could take a dome tweeter. Given your preference for stiffer cones, I would think this driver would be a natural for you!

That's a good possibility but no firm plans right now due to the delivery time on the tweeter. Yes, the price is high but their engineering and quality control still keeps their products in demand. With tweeters the damping becomes more of an issue and some of the stiffer materials can suffer from too much ringing.

A true Be dome like the Scan-Speak should be really good. Many years ago Yamaha had a speaker with one and it had exceptional highs. This is a much different animal than the Usher dome which has far less beryllium content.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 07:18 pm »

Demo pair being test driven by a few AC members in a few weeks.

chrismercurio · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 10:03 pm »

Rick,

Great!

I can't wait to hear how the aluminum cone pans out vs the paper.

Chris

Rick Craig · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Feb 2010, 09:26 pm »

Matching center channel will be available too.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 09:23 pm »

Headed out Monday to a few AC members for evaluation.

cstory · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 01:58 pm »

Rick,

Wow, that looks great.

I wish I lived closer to you, I'd love to hear how it compares to my Grandeur.

Keep the designs comming.

BTW, I absolutely love the Grandeur.

Chuck

Rick Craig · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 04:22 pm »

Quote from: cstory on 23 Feb 2010, 01:58 pm

Rick,

Wow, that looks great. I wish I lived closer to you, I'd love to hear how it compares to my Grandeur.

Keep the designs coming.

BTW, I absolutely love the Grandeur.

Chuck

The Verita and Grandeur are absolutely the best 2-way monitors I've ever built. I challenge anyone to find a better speaker for anything near the cost!

sanjaygolf · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 04:39 pm »

Quote from: Rick Craig on 23 Feb 2010, 04:22 pm

The Verita and Grandeur are absolutely the best 2-way monitors I've ever built. I challenge anyone to find a better speaker for anything near the cost!

Generally speaking how would you compare the two?

Rick Craig · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 05:04 pm »

Quote from: sanjaygolf on 23 Feb 2010, 04:39 pm

Generally speaking how would you compare the two?

The Verita is more detailed in the midrange and upper bass. The underhung motor of the Verita remains more linear when driven hard (no easy feat considering the Revelator woofer has one of the best motor designs of any 7" driver!).

cstory · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 06:20 pm »

Quote from: Rick Craig on 23 Feb 2010, 04:22 pm

The Verita and Grandeur are absolutely the best 2-way monitors I've ever built. I challenge anyone to find a better speaker for anything near the cost!

I just read through Tone Audio Issue #27 where they review a number of small monitor speakers, Snell K7 ($1500), KEF xQ-20 ($2000), Mark and Daniel Diamond ($2650), and the Penaudio Rebel 3 ($2500), and all I could think was too bad they don't have a Verita or Grandeur for comparison. I think if they had a listen to either of those two, it would force them to re-evaluate the value proposition of the others.

Interesting that you find the Verita is more detailed. I find the detail of the Grandeur is equal to my Martin Logan Vista's, I can't imagine even more detail than that.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 06:31 pm »

I wish I was closer as well. I would love to hear one of Ricks designs. Especially with the RAAL ribbon. I'm not sure I can ever go back to a conventional dome tweeter. Plannar and/or ribbon based designs have the best midrange qualities when crossed over low enough. Not to mention that upper end air and extension.

I may have missed it but what is the veneer on the speakers shown? Looks a bit like Koa?

Rick Craig · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 07:30 pm »

Quote from: cstory on 23 Feb 2010, 06:20 pm

I just read through Tone Audio Issue #27 where they review a number of small monitor speakers, Snell K7 ($1500), KEF xQ-20 ($2000), Mark and Daniel Diamond ($2650), and the Penaudio Rebel 3 ($2500), and all I could think was too bad they don't have a Verita or Grandeur for comparison. I think if they had a listen to either of those two, it would force them to re-evaluate the value proposition of the others.

Interesting that you find the Verita is more detailed. I find the detail of the Grandeur is equal to my Martin Logan Vista's, I can't imagine even more detail than that.

Well these companies have to give their dealers a decent profit margin and that puts them at an disadvantage since we sell direct. The parts cost in the Verita and Grandeur is much higher than any of those speakers in the review; in fact, our MSRPl would easily be twice as much or more than the direct pricing.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 08:20 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio on 23 Feb 2010, 06:31 pm

I wish I was closer as well. I would love to hear one of Ricks designs. Especially with the RAAL ribbon. I'm not sure I can ever go back to a conventional dome tweeter. Plannar and/or ribbon based designs have the best midrange qualities when crossed over low enough. Not to mention that upper end air and extension.

I may have missed it but what is the veneer on the speakers shown? Looks a bit like Koa?

My older Sony digital doesn't really capture how nice the veneer is (imbuya). I'll have my photographer take better pictures when I have the speakers back here. The RAAL is my favorite, better than the Fountek, Aurum Cantus, LCY, BG, and all of the other ribbons / planars. The only exception may be that new Raven I have here