[Dilbert]

James, is there a capacitor upgrade for the 2B SST squared? If so, what was the s/n that has them?
Thanks in advance.

[James Tanner]

Hi,

No the 2B has not changed yet.

james

[mr_bill]

Hi James,
So the 2BSST 2 does not have the same upgrades as the other squared amps - do I understand correctly?
Thanks.

[James Tanner]

Hi James,
So the 2BSST 2 does not have the same upgrades as the other squared amps - do I understand correctly?
Thanks.

The 2B SST has not had the new capacitors added yet,  should be soon.

james

[95Dyna]

I struggled with that one myself and I think if you have the newer amps the Torus becomes redudant if your just looking at the power delievery on transients aspect.  If you consider all the other benefits of the Torus in a system then that off-sets that conclusion of course.

james

After a year of evaluating power conditioning products and listening to all the input here I bought the Torus CS 15 for the sole purpose of providing my 7B SST2's isolation from the grid and power for peak current requirements.  After all that and $2K it's very disconcerting to hear that my purchase is redundant to what I already had in my post SN #001825 7B's.  At first I thought I was hearing a big difference but now that I am switching back and forth between the Torus and the wall I'm not so sure.

[James Tanner]

After a year of evaluating power conditioning products and listening to all the input here I bought the Torus CS 15 for the sole purpose of providing my 7B SST2's isolation from the grid and power for peak current requirements.  After all that and $2K it's very disconcerting to hear that my purchase is redundant to what I already had in my post SN #001825 7B's.  At first I thought I was hearing a big difference but now that I am switching back and forth between the Torus and the wall I'm not so sure.

Hi 95Dyna

I am sorry you feel that way but as I said there are a lot more benefits to a Torus Isolation unit beyond current draw capability. I have 4 Torus units in my 3 systems and would not be without them!

james

[drummermitchell]

I certainly don't have any regrets with my Torus(s)even though the amps have the upgrades.
The extra protection that the Torus has saved my gear one time where my computer went to the
parts bin.
Even if supposedly I didn't need the Torus transformer,I feel quite comfy that I do have the extra
transformer as perhaps it's less stress on the amps,works for me as I found out first hand.
More reserve the better,EXTREME AUDIO .

[95Dyna]

Hi 95Dyna

I am sorry you feel that way but as I said there are a lot more benefits to a Torus Isolation unit beyond current draw capability. I have 4 Torus units in my 3 systems and would not be without them!

james

Hi James,

Didn't mean to sound so put out.  I had just finished digging out from 20" of snow last night on the heals of the 2 ft. we got over the weekend and was in somewhat of an iritable mood.  I have enough snow in my neighborhood to take care of the problem in Vancouver!  One should never post or send emails in such a state of mind .  Anyway, if you and drummer can help me better understand what all the Torus is doing when serving the 7/14/28's with the new PS that would help.  I have my SACD player and the BP26 plugged in as well.  Maybe this should be a new thread so all who have the new PS and a Torus can participate and learn.

Thanks,

Bill

[drummermitchell]

Hi Bill,I've never been in that state of mind(uh huh),I'm by no means a techy type of guy.
I know what the Torus did for me protection wise.
As far as the Transformer thing,i'm sure it can't hurt,perhaps the transformer is of no use if a person has the new ones in their amps,I for sure don't know.If my 28s had the new  transformers,
would I buy the Torus,a definate yes,for me just having the extra reserve power,not that I need it.
I guess just peace of mind,which is worth alot to me.

Would be an interesting read if any,with say A Torus with just protection and no transformer,
of course I don't know if that can be done,James........we wait .

[werd]

Hi James,

Didn't mean to sound so put out.  I had just finished digging out from 20" of snow last night on the heals of the 2 ft. we got over the weekend and was in somewhat of an iritable mood.  I have enough snow in my neighborhood to take care of the problem in Vancouver!  One should never post or send emails in such a state of mind .  Anyway, if you and drummer can help me better understand what all the Torus is doing when serving the 7/14/28's with the new PS that would help.  I have my SACD player and the BP26 plugged in as well.  Maybe this should be a new thread so all who have the new PS and a Torus can participate and learn.

Thanks,

Bill

Hey dyna

When do you have time to listen to your stereo anyways?, you are obviously  not shoveling hard enough...   .

Having this new amp i would go back and get the rm10 for everything else and just plug the 14B into the wall. The torus  isolates the digital from the wall and maintains that transformer sonic signature. Thinking about getting another sub so the Torus will have lots of current duty anyways so maybe this a blessing.

Subs love the Torus.... 

James you guys should build a sub and use this Transformer in it. Could this transformer be used in your Class D amps? If you built a sub i would buy it.

[drummermitchell]

I'd be all over that sub(Bryston PMC) .

[gtaphile]

After waiting about 24 hours for the system to warm up...

As expected for me the upgrade was in line with my other experiences with Bryston in my system. The music is simply that much closer to live in every respect....the background is much quieter. My listening these days is mostly vocals and I can tell you Alison Krauss never sounded so good on this system, not even close.

Will chime back in when the Torus arrives.   

My pair of 7Bsq's came back today with the upgrade....they are warming up.

I noticed the bench test notes another 60WPC prior to clipping.

[95Dyna]

After waiting about 24 hours for the system to warm up...

As expected for me the upgrade was in line with my other experiences with Bryston in my system. The music is simply that much closer to live in every respect....the background is much quieter. My listening these days is mostly vocals and I can tell you Alison Krauss never sounded so good on this system, not even close.

Will chime back in when the Torus arrives.

Hi gtaphile,

I'll be most interested to hear your impressions when you get the Torus installed.  I am finding female vocals to be exquisite as well with the 7Bsq with the new PS.  Some examples are Rebecca Pidgeon's "Rose In Spanish Harlem", Christy Baron's "Got to Get You Into My Life" and a beautiful arrangement of Jimi Hendrix' "Little Wing" by Valery Joyce.  I have moved the Torus out of the cabinet on to the floor to make it easier to switch the power to the amps back and forth from the wall to the Torus (CS15) and will also report back any differences I hear.  BP26 and X-05 will remain plugged into the Torus.

Bill

[Mad Mr H]

Currently there seem to be a large number of questions regarding cap/transformer upgrades and the transformer upgrade and how it intergrates with a Torus power unit.

The question often goes deeper to ask if the new SST² changes remove the need for a Torus power unit.


I am sure James / Mike at Bryston will be able to confirm this but there is much more to a Torus and some other power conditioner units that just a transformer.............


What most power conditioners units offer is TWO WAY removal/reduction of mains borne noise, Anti spike protection, this is on the Live, Neutral and Earth lines. Often these units bring flaoting or fully balanced mains to the output of the power conditioner. The transformer in a power conditioner is of great use prior to an amplifier.


Let me break that down a little BUT FIRST I am not an electronics designer the info  give is my understanding of mains conditioner systems (not mains regeneration in this case), I also DONT have a Torus unit but have looked at many pictures of internals and can see most/all of what is offered.

"TWO WAY" mains removal/reduction of noise.
NOISE on the mains is a two way issue. Mains on route TO equipment may have noise on it, The equipment is also able to produce noise and send that BACK down the mains cable. Amplifiers are (my opinion) one of the largest contributors of noise getting back onto the mains cable. Bryston aps areno exception to this from my testing. So a mains conditioning unit will filter this noise from the mains going to the equipment, and will often isolate the noise produced by each item of equipment from getting back to the mains supply to other equipment.

Anti spike protection or suppession - Electric components between live/earth live/neutral neutral/earth  are used to supress or eradicate spikes. those with greater understanding will know delta filtering etc.

Depending on how the power conditioner is wired (and country of use?) the output might be floating balanced or fully balanced (UK laws dont allow this unless restricted access).

The transformer prior to an amp helps reduce noise and helps the transformer in the amplifier (and other kit) run silent without 'chattering','buzzing' etc. Transformer design/type can also aid this.

So for those that are concerned that they have bought a Torus/Power conditioner and it is not required I don't think that is the case. They offer much more in a very specific area than equipment does. Some of these features are seen in amp/head end equipment power supply designs, but never as comprehensive as a dedicated unit.

I have £13,000 mains conditioning units in my two systems, tests here show the reduction of noise they offer.

If 'Tomorrow' Bryston take the full torus design (or further if possible) and include it inside 'amp X', You buy 'amp X' and already own the top of the range Torus - Is your Torus wasted ???

NOPE........

You simply use it on the head end kit and know that it can now do an even BETTER job as there is less noise from 'amp X'. Torus owner with big smile on face.

(Side Note: Head end kit is cd,dvd,blu,hd dvd, turntable, pre, dac etc. in case thats a term not used often by others.)


JAMES - If there is any major wrong info feel free to edit, the above is my thoughts but also based on a large amount of testing in my and other systems. I hope of help to others that might be concerned about duplication of products.

Andy.

[James Tanner]

Hi Andy:

I got this from Torus:

Advantages of Torus in Bryston amplifier:

·Lower impedance power source - more instantaneous power (makes the transformer more tolerant to instantaneous magnetic saturation)

·Improves the amplifier as a Stand-alone component

·Noise reduction rejects line noises... 
 
Advantages of stand-alone Torus:

·Improves and protects all components in the system including the amps

·Provides total isolation from power grid

·Provides excellent noise filtering of the power line at high frequencies

·Protects all components from lighting and surges

·Noise reduction provided for all components

[drummermitchell]

I thought correct,now I can continue my Bryston Torus shuffle .

[95Dyna]

Currently there seem to be a large number of questions regarding cap/transformer upgrades and the transformer upgrade and how it intergrates with a Torus power unit.

The question often goes deeper to ask if the new SST² changes remove the need for a Torus power unit.

Thanks Andy.  I'm one of those with the new PS 7B's and Torus CS15.  When this whole discussion got started it was stated that the "Torus" probably becomes redundant in this scenario.  Not having the depth of knowledge and experience you have and with no further elaboration this became the cause for my consternation.  Thanks to your explanation I now have a better understanding.  I've been doing some experimenting in the meantime and preliminarily I'm finding that my system does sound better in subtle ways (fuller bass, sharper leading edge to transients, female vocal delicacy among others) with the amps plugged into the Torus than the wall.  I'm also finding that the significant improvement I reacted to when I first installed the 15 over the holidays was caused more predominently by the Esoteric X-05 being served by the 15 followed by the BP26.  The mistake I made at the outset was plugging all in at once and leaving it that way for six weeks or so thereby depriving me the ability to assess the contribtution of the head end component and preamp.  I was just fat, dumb and happy that everything was sounding so good I didn't bother to peal the onion back until now.  One thing I have noticed that hasn't been mentioned is when the 7's are plugged into the 15 they run cooler (not that they get that warm to start with).  I was playing two jazz fusion pieces by Oregon (Chesky Records SACD "Beyond Words") that feature some very heavy duty accoustic bass diving deep (mid 20 hz range I'd say), bubbling back up and diving again.  I had the volume up to 2:00 for close to .5 hour and was astonished to find the 7's were cooler than they are at idle.  And, my speaks dip to .8 ohms in the mid 20's to boot.  Has to be the Torus in the line don't you think?  Another feather in its cap I say.

Thanks again,

Bill

[Robert D]

I thought correct,now I can continue my Bryston Torus shuffle .

Yes Sir Don 

Robert

[Mad Mr H]

Thanks Andy.......One thing I have noticed that hasn't been mentioned is when the 7's are plugged into the 15 they run cooler. Has to be the Torus in the line don't you think?

Thanks again,

Bill

Hi, Glad I made sense!

RE reduced temp - This is possible and is an indication of better efficiency.

It would be very difficult for me to say that the running temp is without question cooler as this is also room temp related. Airflow in room etc.

But as it is something you have noticed then thats the best way to find something out.

Andy.

[werd]

Hello folks

I have noticed and have commented in the past that my Torus has reduced the requirement for bigger more expensive power cords. I say that even as a believer in power cords. There are two equally important roles that a good power cord plays, first being noise reduction and secondly, power recovery from the wall. As important as noise reduction is i am only commenting on the power recovery role.

We have learned in that past that the Torus fixes the the wall's high impedance in dynamic peaks. After owning the Torus its taught me that power cords try to  improve the wall output in the same manner, but no where near as effective as the Torus. This is clearly the result of the transformer in the Torus and now available in the higher Bryston amp models.

With my 4B into the Torus i actually dumbed down my power cables and basically sold all my Shunyata pythons. I found that there was just too much response in treble with the Shunyata/Torus into my  AZ's ,that use a very dynamic ribbon tweeter.

Now that i have the 14B utilizing the new transformers, the difference i find between the wall and the Torus is slim, at the volumes i listen to anyways. Higher nite club spls i can see the Torus shining and indispensable.

Keep in mind that i am using from the 14B to the wall a very nice Gutwire power  lead into a 15 amp hospital grade outlet.

Just to clarify i think good quality leads are worthy from the wall to the transformer, but the transformer reduces the need of power cabling from the transformer to the amp. Here the 14B has the new transformer so the quality leads  from the wall help.