When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.

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srb

Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #140 on: 11 Feb 2010, 05:59 am »
FWIW, I don't know for sure if there's a $1,000 power cable, I'm just assuming there is  :D

Its not an assumption anymore.  :)  And these guys aren't the only ones, for what its worth.
http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/09/26/futuretech-powerflux-the-most-expensive-power-cable-ever/

No, unfortunately not by a longshot.
 
BMI Oceanic Statement power cable, $14,500.  http://www.bmicable.com/oceanic_statement
 
But as the topic title says, look at upgrading your speakers first!
 
Steve

rollo

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #141 on: 11 Feb 2010, 02:48 pm »
$14,500 for a powercord or Maggie 20.1s HMM ! What are they thinking. Good find Steve.


charles

macrojack

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #142 on: 11 Feb 2010, 03:12 pm »
All of this discussion seems to be predicated on additive thinking. But consider for a moment that the sum total of what is available from the recording you are trying to reproduce is already captive. Do you want to add to it? Or are you trying to release it from its encapsulation with a minimum of loss or compromise? What is the tube rolling, cable choosing, equalizing, theorizing, arguing, philosophizing, posturing, modifying, etc, intended to accomplish?

There is no single driver that can reproduce a full bandwidth but many of them can provide a natural clarity that audiophile A values enough to accept that compromise. Meanwhile, he enjoys a coherence and continuity that multi-driver, full bandwidth speakers can't imagine.
Shut up and pick your poison.

Tweaks do not contribute positively at a theoretical level but they provide seasoning that many seem to enjoy. Sometimes this is to cheat by bringing an inexpensive product closer to the level of established, and/or superior items. Some audio types are just tweak believers or mod believers and they presume the soup will be improved by salt without so much as tasting it.  No category or psychological profile is left unfilled by audiophiles.

There is much to this and someone should write a book. I can't because I no longer even read them.

Replace your weakest link first. Or wait and jump on whatever is a deal you can't refuse. Or replace your speakers. All this advice has merit but none of it is universal. Superman can kick Batman's ass though.

Nuance

Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #143 on: 11 Feb 2010, 04:21 pm »
 
 BMI Oceanic Statement power cable, $14,500.  http://www.bmicable.com/oceanic_statement
 
But as the topic title says, look at upgrading your speakers first!
 
Steve

Whoa - that's just foolishness.  Wow...

Yeah, I'd rather have a pair of Revel Ultima 2's or Salk HT4's. 

Superman can kick Batman's ass though.

What about Batman VS. Jack Bauer?  :D :lol:

macrojack

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #144 on: 11 Feb 2010, 04:44 pm »
Jack Bauer is fiction.

K Shep

Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #145 on: 11 Feb 2010, 04:50 pm »
FWIW, I don't know for sure if there's a $1,000 power cable, I'm just assuming there is

The photo below shows 2 after market power cables, one retails for $950 (active shielding) the other $475 (non active).  Thats right in your budget cujo.  :wink:




cujobob

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #146 on: 11 Feb 2010, 05:34 pm »

Replace your weakest link first. Or wait and jump on whatever is a deal you can't refuse. Or replace your speakers. All this advice has merit but none of it is universal. Superman can kick Batman's ass though.

Part of the problem, I suppose, is that many hobbyists are unaware of the better offerings in various price ranges...which is why they assume it takes a lot of money to have a good set of speakers, source, preamp or power amp.  A good $2,000 preamp will in fact sound better than a bad $300 preamp, but what about a good $300 preamp?

There are no standards...something we touched on earlier.

macrojack

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #147 on: 11 Feb 2010, 05:56 pm »
Lighten up - the horse is dead.

There is no panacea, no unassailable, one size fits all bit of wisdom that can be issued. Problems vary and solutions will usually be unique to the circumstances at hand.
Tis a fool's errand indeed to make broad statements about how best to fix something unseen and unspecified - especially when, in the case of many audiophile musings, there is no problem at all other than dissatisfaction.

When upgrading: be careful where you seek advice.

cujobob

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #148 on: 11 Feb 2010, 06:09 pm »
Acoustics is a science...not an art.

macrojack

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #149 on: 11 Feb 2010, 06:19 pm »
Medicine is a science - not an art. Would you be comfortable announcing your diagnosis without seeing the patient or knowing the specifics of the disorder you are treating?


cujobob

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #150 on: 11 Feb 2010, 06:29 pm »
You have to work in generalities at times, otherwise no one would ever LEARN medicine.  When you go in a hospital with a cough, do they test you for every illness known to man?  Or do they assume things based on the season and a few quick questions?

DaveC113

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #151 on: 11 Feb 2010, 06:36 pm »
Acoustics is a science...not an art.

But it's not fully understood, and neither is all electrical phenomenon.

macrojack

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #152 on: 11 Feb 2010, 06:37 pm »
cujobob - you win!!!

Niteshade

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #153 on: 11 Feb 2010, 07:11 pm »
Out of curiosity- how many of you elevate your floor standing speakers? My RF-83's are elevated one foot and it makes a huge difference in presentation. I have another pair (Vintage Allied 2-ways) that are elevated about 2ft and the difference is positive as well.

doug s.

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #154 on: 11 Feb 2010, 07:18 pm »
Out of curiosity- how many of you elevate your floor standing speakers? My RF-83's are elevated one foot and it makes a huge difference in presentation. I have another pair (Vintage Allied 2-ways) that are elevated about 2ft and the difference is positive as well.
the coincident victory's i used to own sounded much better elevated ~1' or so.  my piega p4 mkll ltd's sound better w/o the 1' elevation.  so, i suspect this is speaker dependent...

doug s.

cujobob

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #155 on: 11 Feb 2010, 07:27 pm »
But it's not fully understood, and neither is all electrical phenomenon.

Fully, no....nothing is, including Medicine, Chemistry, etc.  'Good' explanations for common phenomena do exist, though.  Understanding how the ear hears, room works acoustically, and how the brain tricks us are important areas we ignore too much IMO.

Home sound systems can come a long way because we don't treat it as a science for the most part.  Treating a room well, using multiple subs scattered throughout the room, and speakers that provide directional control alleviate many problems.  We aren't all doing it the same way because of marketing, budgets, and a lack of availability of well engineered products, I'd guess.

Nightshade, typically, the tweeter being ear-height is considered ideal...it would depend on the speaker

satfrat

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #156 on: 11 Feb 2010, 07:39 pm »
Out of curiosity- how many of you elevate your floor standing speakers? My RF-83's are elevated one foot and it makes a huge difference in presentation. I have another pair (Vintage Allied 2-ways) that are elevated about 2ft and the difference is positive as well.

I elevate my Odyssey Lorelei's 3.5" using Sistrum Platforms SP-004 which actually does raise the tweeter height to ear level in my listening chair. I had used 2 different types of cones and a few other types of coupling devices earlier but raising my Lorelei's with these opposing cone platforms make a huge improvement in both clarity and in an increased sound stage depth & width presentation. The Sistrum Platforms were for me the single biggest upgrade I've made for my Lorelei's but closely followed by a few others that I won't bother mentioning as it really doesn't pertain to this thread's topic to begin with.
 
edit: After reading Niteshades original post, I think any upgrade to a loudspeaker that benefits the user's listening preferences should be prevelent so I'll include 2 more upgrades that I've totally enjoyed. The 1st is the Bybee Ultra Speaker Filters that closely follow the Sistrum Platforms with their added sound stage depth & music weight that Bybee's add to the music and is something that I personally thrive on. The 2nd would be Jim Gouldings Touchstone Tweeter Surrounds or what I like to refer to as Woolie Surrounds. Jim's wool pads that surround the Scan-Speak 9700 tweeters make a substantial improvement in solidifying the imaging by taking refraction out of the equation. Just these 3 "tweaks" have helped make my Lorelei's be all they can be for what I want them to be to suit my listening preferences. YMMV!  :thumb:
 
 
Cheers,
Robin

Nuance

Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #157 on: 11 Feb 2010, 08:17 pm »

doug s.

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #158 on: 11 Feb 2010, 08:21 pm »
Jack Bauer is fiction.
as opposed to superman and batman...   :lol:

doug s.

macrojack

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Re: When upgrading: Look at your speakers first.
« Reply #159 on: 11 Feb 2010, 10:22 pm »
Tweeter height, huh? I'm gonna need a barstool. Or cut holes in the floor to lower the woofer cabinets. Which would you guys recommend?