Icon HDP vs. UDAC

DZetye · « **on:** 4 Jan 2010, 09:36 pm »

Can you comment on whether the HDP as a DAC would be superior to the UDAC if I am using it exclusively for Internet radio streaming from my PC. There is quite a large difference in price but I don't know if the differences would be big or not for sound quality.

pdferguson · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 06:57 pm »

if you're only listening to streaming internet radio, then the quality of the DAC will be largely irrelevant because the source will be highly compressed. Differences will only show up when listening to a high quality source (e.g. lossless audio file). An external DAC will sound better than using the analog audio straight out of your PC, though, even for streaming from the internet.

The real question is when is the HDP ever going to ship? After initially saying early fall, that got pushed to "end of November", then there was nothing for a while. Now their site says "Feb 3" (on the front page) and "shipping Jan 4" (on the HDP page). Frankly, I've lost faith that NuForce knows what the hell they're doing; the constantly shifting dates are a good way to lose customers.

nuforce-casey · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 06:12 am »

Hi,
We have been conservative on the HDP engineering and release, because it has to be perfect. We have changed the circuit architecture several times to add features, the aggregate functions and performance resulted in the HDP being a monster trying to go inside a small case, we have to break-down the circuit boards (multiple multi-layer circuit boards) stacking on each other just to fit the small chassis - which throws off the layout and circuit design schedule.

That said, we have been playing with the 1st cut of the final and working HDP, we have found a few bugs, and we are making the first production boards right now. So it's coming and getting very close.

srb · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 07:25 am »

I'm not going to fault you for extending release dates due to redesign, updates or a multitude of other unforseen possibilities. Companies larger than NuForce have had to revise timelines.

But it certainly would be a good idea to have matching rather than conflicting dates on multiple web pages.

Steve

rustydoglim · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 01:17 pm »

The date has been updated. Icon HDP is one thing that we will delay until it is perfect.
As Casey said, it is getting very close, hopefully we won't find any bugs in the new revision.
If uDAC is good, HDP has to be out of this world kind of good.

betweentheears · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Jan 2010, 06:06 pm »

Looking forward to this and many more new products.
Computer audio is getting exciting and affordable!

rustydoglim · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 12:25 pm »

We have approved the production release of HDP and should be able to take order on Feb 5 for shipping on Feb 8.

pdferguson · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 07:23 pm »

Thanks for the update, Jason. I'm looking forward to the HDP. It would be helpful if you could update your website with some photos, other info while we're waiting.

Do you guys have any retail dealers (in SF Bay Area) for your Icon products, or are they only available online?

rustydoglim · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 04:20 pm »

Our Icon products are mainly sold online.

By the way, we have to raise the price of Icon HDP to $499 due to higher final cost. We expect this product to compete well with DAC+preamp costing 10X its price. No kidding.

tubesound · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 10:21 pm »

Quote from: nuforce-jason on 29 Jan 2010, 04:20 pm

We expect this product to compete well with DAC+preamp costing 10X its price. No kidding.

Jason: what DACs you compared to?

rustydoglim · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Jan 2010, 04:44 am »

We never mention competitor's brand. This policy has been around since 2005.
This is more of a marketing statement to indicate what we think of HDP's performance. Technology changes rapidly. Who knows, in a few years, some $50 DAC would eat HDP for lunch

Caar · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jan 2010, 11:28 am »

Quite an honest statement.
Cheers.

pdferguson · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Feb 2010, 04:41 pm »

I see there's new information about the HDP on the NuForce web site, thanks for adding that. However, I see three different prices on three different pages ($399, 449, and 499), you probably should get those synched up.

The HDP page also mentions a linear power supply as an option, which is new. Any info on that (pricing, etc.)? What are the benefits of this over the stock power supply?

And to get on a soapbox for a moment, I really dislike when companies do this--ship a product with one power supply but tell users that to really get the most out of a product they need to buy an "upgraded power supply" (Virtue Audio seems to be the worst offender I've seen, they even imply their base-level power supply should only be used to "break in the amp". WTF is that about?) It is disrespectful towards customers to play this game. If the HDP--which you have repeatedly positioned as "perfect"--needs a linear power supply to be perfect, that's what it should include in the box.

saisunil · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Feb 2010, 04:49 pm »

Multiple Power Supplies give people options to 'upgrade' or change down the road or pay upfront based on their budget ...

I much rather see option to have external power supply instead of having one standard power supply (which if the built in one is really not the best option) baked into the price ...

Now if the external power supply is more expensive than the product itself ... that would be a different story.

Cheers

rustydoglim · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Feb 2010, 06:45 pm »

Quote from: pdferguson on 4 Feb 2010, 04:41 pm

I see there's new information about the HDP on the NuForce web site, thanks for adding that. However, I see three different prices on three different pages ($399, 449, and 499), you probably should get those synched up.

The HDP page also mentions a linear power supply as an option, which is new. Any info on that (pricing, etc.)? What are the benefits of this over the stock power supply?

And to get on a soapbox for a moment, I really dislike when companies do this--ship a product with one power supply but tell users that to really get the most out of a product they need to buy an "upgraded power supply" (Virtue Audio seems to be the worst offender I've seen, they even imply their base-level power supply should only be used to "break in the amp". WTF is that about?) It is disrespectful towards customers to play this game. If the HDP--which you have repeatedly positioned as "perfect"--needs a linear power supply to be perfect, that's what it should include in the box.

I will sync up the price to $449. Look, I personally will be happy using HDP with the standard power supply. We have conducted all our tests with the standard power supply. So stop complaining until you got the facts. A linear power supply is a $199 option. I doubt any people will want us to include that in the standard price. Why do some people upgrade their sports car's tire? Why upgrade this and that?
A few people might want the added performance from a linear power supply (less noisy than the standard switching power supply).

WE NEVER PLAY GAMES! We have conducted our business as straight forward as we can since 2005. You must be new to Nuforce.

pdferguson · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Feb 2010, 07:24 pm »

Thanks, Jason. I wasn't trying to be a jerk about it, I was just stating my opinion, and hope that it was taken as such. I trust what you have written in this forum, and appreciate all the information you have shared with us. It's one of the reasons I've held off buying a competing product and have been waiting patiently for this product. My only intent in posting is so that you hear from customers (or in my case, a future customer) about what they do or don't like about a product or a company. I've seen many cases of companies that play "bait and switch" games with things like power supplies, and hope that NuForce doesn't follow their example. I apologize if my words offended anyone.

Also, it's nice to see you've revised the price back down a bit, that shows you guys really are trying to be fair.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Feb 2010, 06:40 pm »

Appreciate your feedback.

With regards to pricing, we like to deliver great value for money so after some internal debate, we settled on $449 for HDP.

DigitalLF · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Feb 2010, 01:22 am »

i would love to see some pictures.... ??

DigitalLF · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Feb 2010, 12:43 am »

there is a internal picture of HDP up on nuforce.com i think they linked to the wrong picture

there right one is there you just need to figure out how to find it... (hint its easy as 2-1=1)

pdferguson · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Feb 2010, 06:30 pm »

There are pictures of the HDP on NuForce's Amazon dealer page:

amazon.nuforce-icon.com

I placed an order for an HDP yesterday, although today it looks like they aren't taking any more orders at the moment.