Speaker placement..

es347 · « **on:** 1 Jan 2010, 07:59 pm »

Today I moved my VR5 annies 2 ft. further away from the front wall and moved my listening chairs back 2 ft. as well. The speakers are 9 ft. apart and my listening chair is 9 ft. from the speaker fronts. I did this in an attempt to improve my soundstage depth but was concerned that it may negatively impact the bass response. I now have more of that holographic three-dimensional image and surprisingly the bass response is even more pronounced. This is no doubt due to the room acoustics and I may even have to add some dacron to the bass ports. I'll live with it a while just to confirm the improvement but so far, so good.

mikel51 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 12:18 am »

So how far from the back walls are they now? and how far into the room is your listening position relative to the front (?) wall-the wall behind your listening position?

I have vr5 annies 5 ft from the rear wall (front of woofers), 8 1/2 feet apart from each other (centers of woofers) and 13 feet from the listening position (left ear to left speaker and right ear to right speaker--speakers with decent toe in). My listening position is 18 feet from the wall behind the speaker and 13 feet from the wall behind the listening position.

I settled on this placement after trying closer to the wall behind the speakers and closer together and further apart. I didn't notice too much change in bass with the movement, but I did notice differences in soundstage the "sweet spot" where the voices lock into a coherrent point of focus.

es347 · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 01:50 am »

Baffles (fronts) are 6.5 ft from front wall, 3.5 ft from side walls, toed in slightly....9 ft between speakers and 9 ft from my listening position. The speaker axes intersect at a point about 6 ft behind my chair. Imaging is very good as is the soundstage width and depth. Seating is about 13 ft from the back wall but the room in the back is irregular and opens into a bar area that adds another 12 ft or so. This position has, I think, introduced a mid bass standing wave that is annoying. I may have to move them back closer to the front wall until that standing wave at the listening position goes away..not an easy thing to do with those spikes.

StereoNut · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 02:08 am »

es347

Nice lookin' listening room.

I especially like the "Nipper" RCA dog statue.

SN

es347 · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 02:17 am »

Thanks SN,

Nipper being used to listening to his master's voice through the Victrola looks a bit confused.

Delacroix · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 03:55 pm »

My set up is similar to Mikel51's mentioned above. I have a a 25'x18' approx room and my VR5SEs are just over 50 inches, woofer front to wall behind, 11' apart, and toed in to cross well behind my head. I sit about 12 ft from them, when I chose to sit down while listening. Very solid L-R soundstage, strong central image. I played around with placement a lot over the first year of ownership and still shift them on occasion again when new gear arrives ( process made simpler by the use of HAL decouplers which allow the speaker to slide over my wooden floor). Currently tweaking tilt angle which seems to have very subtle further effects -- does this ever end?

I noticed that unlike previous speakers I've owned, I can move the Vons closer to the back wall without major shifts in bass response. Oddly, when I tried them close to the wall, for test purposes, they seemed to work well there and pushed a soundstage forward in an interesting manner. I ended up thinking that an important determinant of their overall sound in my room is the location of underlying floor supports: this impacts the bass more than front/back movements.Eventually I will crawl under that part of the house and try some extra jacks, unless I can trick someone else into doing it for me

I also use Soundocity brackets under the Vons which I think look and sound better than the original spikes.

I also did try the Cardas formula, also for kicks, knowing there was no way I could leave them where that placed the speakers and expect to stay married, large speakers stuck out in what felt like the middle of the living room, but I wanted to know what that sounded like. Good but not earth-shatteringly so, at least that is what I wanted to believe. When life allows a little more time I'll try the Masterset method discussed here before but frankly, the sonics are just so pleasing right now I have little motivation to put the effort in. But of course, we all want to know.....

btw - belated happy new year to you all

whytejon · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 07:44 pm »

Incredible,

Im amazed at how far away from the wall yours are!

In order to get the bass i wanted, i used to have mine only 16" from the front (or rear) wall (behind the speaker). And that was with ALL of the dacron out.

I recently got my VS speaker cables "cooked" which made a dramatic difference, but has had the effect of increasing the mids and highs, so guess what, ive had to push the speakers even FURTHER back, and they are now only 11" from the rear wall!!

No idea why i have such a lack of bass with these speakers, but ive just upgraded the speaker cables to the VS reference which im hoping will improve everything dramatically (but especially the bass)......

Nice set up! Never heard the Macintosh gear, but it certainly looks the part.

Do you play guitar or are all the guitars in the room simply to impress the ladies!?

whytejon · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 07:45 pm »

PS - i notice you dont have any isolation underneath them, im guessing you have a concrete floor??

Jon

es347 · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 11:19 pm »

Jon,

I play the guitar very poorly, certainly not in a fashion that would impress a sober lady. The guitars, for the moment, are for aesthetics but one day I hope to actually pick one up and play again. My speakers sit on concrete so spikes are the way to go. I get copious amounts of bass with them 6 ft. (from the baffles) from the front wall. The imaging is wonderful in that setting but I had a standing wave issue that necessitated moving them back a foot or so. I plan to install corner bass traps which hopefully will allow me to move them back out, without the standing wave problem.

douglesc · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 12:45 am »

No idea why i have such a lack of bass with these speakers, but ive just upgraded the speaker cables to the VS reference which im hoping will improve everything dramatically (but especially the bass)......
===========================================================================
whytejon:
You have double checked to make sure you have them hooked up in phase haven't you????
It doesn't hurt to check as that would cause a big drop in bass.
Gavin:
What a nice room you have.

es347 · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 02:22 am »

Thanks douglesc!

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 02:50 am »

Quote from: whytejon on 6 Jan 2010, 07:45 pm

PS - i notice you dont have any isolation underneath them, im guessing you have a concrete floor??

Jon

My my, Jon, what a nice set of components you have for strictly digital playback. Very high pedigree all. Like to see the room you have them playing into and your seat. Thanks.

es347 · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 02:16 pm »

I 2nd that Jim. LAMM and VSA...a match made in heaven. Pictures please!

wimck · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Jan 2010, 08:34 am »

Thanks a lot es347 !!

You message inspired me to move my Unifield 3 's a bit as well as my listening chair.
It's unbelievable what a difference there is with a movement of only 8 inch.
I moved the Uni's 2 inch further from the back wall and my listening chair about 6 inch closer to the baffles.
So now the distances are: 6 feet between left and right Uni. the baffles are 2 feet away (unfortunately the max due to a door) from the back wall and my ears are 9 feet from the baffles.

It's known that the Unifield 3's have to be places carefully but now I know it's much more important then I thought.

Much better soundstage and holographic sound, I'm IN the music now

Still I'm curious about the placement of other Unifield 3 users.

penthouse-D · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Jan 2010, 08:02 pm »

Replying to Jon, I'm having the same problem with bass in my new MK3's. It's very frustrating. Please let me know if the new cables help. I'm getting no "punch" whatsoever.

Ambiance · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Jan 2010, 10:40 pm »

Nice to know es347.

Just to day I was trying out different placements on my sweetspot and did not get time to move speakers around yet, but doing that i got more of one thing and less on the other, not completely satisfied yet. What is the size of your room? (Lengt, width and hight) Maybe I can do somethig simular with my VR4SR MKII/III annies.

A.

es347 · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Jan 2010, 02:34 am »

My room is 16Wx30Dx10H and with sheetrock walls/ceiling: carpet over concrete. I am finding that pulling the speakers out further into the room gives a more holographic image but at the expense of a standing wave issue at around 100hz. I am playing with corner bass traps and have seen somewhat of an improvement. Good luck with your placement search.

JackD201 · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Jan 2010, 03:19 am »

Hi Gavin,

The easiest way to avoid a node is to move yourself out of it. When you moved your speakers the nodal positions moved too. Your new seating position may have landed smack in an undesirable node. Have you moved your chair around some more? Moving a couple of feet forward or back (actually where your trunk would normally be at rest) can make a huge difference. Traps will attenuate bass output but if the problem is nodal, you'll likely just get mixed results.

Jack

es347 · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Jan 2010, 01:59 pm »

Hey there Jack,

Yep done that. I notice some improvement when I move my seating position back and forth but it's not dramatic. I am sitting closer than previously and that has seemed to be somewhat better. Is there a downside to using corner traps? I've got a pair on loan that are 6 ft. high and a quarter-round shape, free standing and tucked into the corners. They do seem to tighten the bass and lessen the standing wave problem but not sure what else they are doing. They are only about 12" wide and I have read where they need to be at least 24" wide to be effective. What are your thoughts? Thanks.

JackD201 · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Jan 2010, 02:57 pm »

Proper corner traps can be good news Gavin emphasis on proper. Surface area and density will determine the frequency attenuated. These things aren't all made equal. Good news is you're after a hump. That means you're looking anywhere between 40 and 120Hz so they need not be too chubby. Time for you to download and burn some test tones and head over to the rack shack to grab an SPL meter so you can plot out your room frequency response.

Welcome to phase 2 of audiophilia nervosa. Nice of you to join us!