[doug s.]

Sorry, doug, but you don't have it quite right. Laws are made by folks in the legislate branch of the government. Laws are enforced by the judicial branch of the government. Enforcing a law is not political, therefore, discussion of law enforcement is not of a political nature, either.

Legislature dreams up the law, the executive signs the law into effect, the judicial system enforces the law.

Therefore, any discussion of the EPA executing an action is not of a political nature.

Wayner

enforcing a law is not political?  the epa executing an action is not of a political nature?
 

one last comment - remove all the political statements from this thread, and what do you have left?  barely even a whole single post.   

doug s.

[Wayner]

Grow up.

[doug s.]

wow - what insight.  and you think i need to grow up?   

don't get me wrong - i love discussions such as what is in this thread.  it's yust not allowed on a/c.  don't like it?  then attempt to change it.  god knows i have...

doug s.

[TheChairGuy]

The US actually polices environmental standards and this policy gives foriegn (Chinese) manufacturers an unfair competitive advantage because countries like China are more interested in industry and building a strong industrial base than the environment or worker safety in many cases.  We need to make sure that our trading partners adhere to some reasonable standards instead of regulating all manufacturing businesses out of business in the US. 

Bureau Veritas: http://www.bureauveritas.com/wps/wcm/connect/bv_com/Group
Consumer Testing Laboratories: http://www.consumertesting.com/testing_terms.php

These are two of about 4 independent labs based in Hong Kong that we typically pay ~ $500 per 'social' audits and another $500 for QA/Quality Control audits.  These happen at least 2x monthly now given our breadth of customer base.

The Social visits are monitoring the facilities and treatment of workers - from overtime pay and hours right down to having soap in the washrooms .  The QA audit supervises and makes sure we are compliant with all retailer, state, and Federal labeling laws for each country and such thing as toxic metal levels and test for sustainable materials used.

Lowe's and Costco tend to be the most strict - followed closely by Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Carrefour and many others.  Fact is, testing is widely done to insure that Chinese makers live up to the same ethical and environmental standards as US and others do. It's quite a check list of standards each time.

Guitar Centre and Sam Ash require them for imports....best bet if you are concerned about ethical or worker safety standards...buy from the BIGGEST retailers in the industry.  They are too big and liability conscious to take a risk like that. 

Your friendly, local retailer may well be the one with lax or nonexistent standards

John

[James Romeyn]

...It is amazing that these newly discovered endangered species somehow live in areas that can be developed for natural gas and oil...

charles       

Charles
That provided one great laugh...thanks!

TheChairGuy
Right on, as usual!

[lonewolfny42]

...It is amazing that these newly discovered endangered species somehow live in areas that can be developed for natural gas and oil...

charles       

Charles
That provided one great laugh...thanks!

TheChairGuy
Right on, as usual!

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6027412n&tag=contentBody;housing

[rollo]

Sorry, doug, but you don't have it quite right. Laws are made by folks in the legislate branch of the government. Laws are enforced by the judicial branch of the government. Enforcing a law is not political, therefore, discussion of law enforcement is not of a political nature, either.

Legislature dreams up the law, the executive signs the law into effect, the judicial system enforces the law.

Therefore, any discussion of the EPA executing an action is not of a political nature.

Wayner

 Not anymore. Times are a changing. Since when does the EPA tell Congress to pass certain measures and then threaten to put them into law without them. BTW the naming of CO2 as a poison is not political. Or Cap and trade ? I agree we have a process however as I mentioned times are a changing. Where is Dylan now that we really need some songs on the issue. hold the Bubinga give me Spruce or Maple.


charles
 

[turkey]

I don't feel we should be importing rosewood from endangered trees from Madagascar, no matter whether it's raw wood, or made into finished goods (or anywhere in between).

Gibson may have broken the law (or not). If they did, then I would assume they will change their business policies.

[rollo]

I don't feel we should be importing rosewood from endangered trees from Madagascar, no matter whether it's raw wood, or made into finished goods (or anywhere in between).

Gibson may have broken the law (or not). If they did, then I would assume they will change their business policies.

  Now we here in the good ol USA may have some tree huggers which is cool by me but the people where these woods come from make money to feed their families. This may be the only resource they have to earn a living. Really who are we to tell them what to do with THEIR trees on their land. BONO ! Cut down a tree plant three. Better than Ivory.

[Scottdazzle]

The Lacey Act was enacted in 1900 and has been enforced ever since.  Parties that knowingly traffic in products from endangered species are in violation of this law.  It is enforced by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in this country.  Other participating countries who belong to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (commonly known as CITES) enforce violations inside their borders. Participation in CITES is voluntary.  The Lacey Act has been an effective tool for law enforcement in the protection of valued species for over 100 years.  Species that qualify as endangered are the result of CITES consideration and agreement.  This is not a case of Big Brother run amock.

As for endangered species showing up where energy development is planned, the fact is that there are endangered species just about everywhere.  The key to development is habitat conservation and restoration to protect the species while development occurs.  In many cases mitigation and/or incidental take can be used to allow the development to proceed.  Sometimes environmental groups or NIMBY groups use the Endangered Species Act to prevent development they oppose.  It's the tail wagging the dog.

[BobM]

Gibson just launched their brand new eco-friendly pinewood guitar. The sound is supposed to be simply superb (or so say the marketing men). Some of the best acoustics of any mass produced eco-friendly guitar on the planet. There's going to be a signature model with a screen print of green celeb Molie Cyrus on the front. I wonder where her mouth will line up?

The only issue is that you have to send it back to the factory annually so they can take the warp out of it. There will be a nominal $49 fee for this service, plus shipping.

(BTW - this is all BS if you haven't guessed yet)

[turkey]

  Now we here in the good ol USA may have some tree huggers which is cool by me but the people where these woods come from make money to feed their families. This may be the only resource they have to earn a living. Really who are we to tell them what to do with THEIR trees on their land. BONO ! Cut down a tree plant three. Better than Ivory.

We're paying, so we can call the shots. We also can pass whatever laws we want in our own country.

The big problem is that they don't plant more trees, they just cut down more forest until there's nothing left. It winds up being just as bad as ivory.